5 ms·

Attention Startups, Online Gambling May Be the Big Market in New York for 2012

20 points by pier0 15y ago

jc4p 15y ago
This could be big news for the guys over at Betable, whose blog is seemingly on the front page of HN every time they make a new post.
dmor 15y ago
Online gambling, and gambling in general, is is a huge opportunity. PokerStars and FultTilt poker were 1.0 versions of something that could be a much more powerful experience. Those sites primarily focused on taking offline games and bringing them online, without doing much to augment the experience. For every one of those who tried to make a living (for a minute) playing a dozen sit-and-go tournaments, or others who tried to write bots against the system, there were thousands of players just looking to relieve some stress after a long day. Personally, I'd like to see an intersection of gambling in the traditional sense with social games from Zynga and others and also with eGaming like Star Craft II and Diablo.
marquis 15y ago
As a concerned citizen who has seen gambling cause havoc in poor communities, I hope that the next revolution in online gambling is one where actually money is not required. For those of you thinking of the potential for income please consider where the money is coming from. While a gambler will still find somewhere to lose his/her money it would be heartening to see systems implemented that are on the lookout for addicts, while providing entertainment for those who can afford to spend (I have no problem with gambling and enjoy a game of poker, or going to the races, myself, but I 'play to lose'.)
- paulhauggis 15y ago
  "I hope that the next revolution in online gambling is one where actually money is not required." That's called Farmville and many other online games. The revolution, in that regard, is here. Business is all about risk. As an example: when you purchase advertising, you are gambling on the fact that you will get enough buyers to cover the cost of advertising. Should we ban advertising too? Instead of trying to protect the world by banning these things, we need to educate more people on their risks. If they choose not to listen, it is at their own peril. Hopefully they will learn life's harsh lessons.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - marquis 15y ago
    >Hopefully they will learn life's harsh lessons. I don't think that's really fair. Are you familiar with the effects of gambling in poor communities? Every pokie machine can have a sign on it that says 'Gambling ruins you and your family' and it doesn't help. Enabling a community to flourish in it's own right is what stops gambling. Anyway, what I was pointing out is that the online gambling industry has so far worked well to get money out of two types of people: those who can afford to lose, and those who can't. I'd like to see anyone going into this industry really focusing on the first group and not being predatory in attracting the second. How? I don't know but I'll support whoever manages it with my own poker-chip purchases. An example: be a good gambling franchise and put 30% of your profit into addiction awareness and support (something like this is mandatory in Australia for example I believe).
hello_moto 15y ago
Having been exposed in the so-called "Online Gaming" companies, I really wish there are less of them. Maybe it was a bad exposure/experience for me but those companies are filled with your typical fraudster/scammer (kind of like that MegaUpload guy, or the Bodog guy). If you looked at the recent trend in EPL (English Premier League, Football), it's a bit concerning where there are a few mediocre teams being sponsored by these companies and with lots of around the field ads promoting their sites.
moocow01 15y ago
Attention Startups, -- great opportunity-- you could be at the forefront of enriching yourselves with the money of America's poor and addicted! Of all the problems out there to be solved this is truly the one opportunity not to be missed... :(
- cobrabyte 15y ago
  I've always thought of poker as a game of skill. Sure, it's more or less dictated by the odds but a proficient player is able to make you second-guess those odds. I agree with you in regards to online slots and blackjack. There's a definite house edge and you're always playing a losing game in the long run. These games are engineered to give a false sense of strategy to less-intelligent participants. I don't think games of true skill should be lopped-in with slots and lotteries.
  - yahelc 15y ago
    I don't think its a question of if poker is a skill; people, skilled or unskilled, can become dangerously addicted to poker and lose their shirts in the process. Most legitimate games of skill do not involve risking your livelihood to participate. To "disrupt" the gambling industry is to inevitably profit off of addicts. (Though, the same could be said of booze makers and alcoholics.)
    - paulhauggis 15y ago
      "To "disrupt" the gambling industry is to inevitably profit off of addicts." The same can be said about MMORPGS. I knew many people from highschool that never graduated because of this addiction. More people need to take personal responsibility for their decisions. Many people gamble and are not addicted.
      - cobrabyte 15y ago
        Absolutely. I've seen quite a few friends literally wreck their lives by playing WoW and other MMORPGs. I used to play poker with a group of local friends. It started off friendly enough ($50 tournaments). They started playing a lot of cash games and the table stakes got crazy (e.g. $1k+ hands). Needless to say, I left that group behind. It's a matter of personal discipline. If you can't afford to throw the money out the window, you shouldn't be playing. I play because I enjoy the game and the company of friends.
gexla 15y ago
A gambler will find a way to gamble his/her money. I'm assuming there are casino's in most states in the U.S. (Indian reservations) and online gambling laws weren't much of a deterrent to the hard core. I would rather the U.S. legalize and regulate gambling rather than leave the regulation to questionable jurisdictions in island nations I have never heard of. Competing in this space would be difficult. Licensing is expensive. The competition is huge and well entrenched.
- chegra 15y ago
  >>rather than leave the regulation to questionable jurisdictions in island nations I have never heard of. You never heard about a place but they are a questionable jurisdiction? "Antigua is a recognised centre for online gambling companies. Antigua was one of the very first nations to legalise, licence and regulate online gaming."[1] "Stable Jurisdiction: Antigua and Barbuda is an independent nation state with a stable Westminster-style democratic government. General elections are constitutionally due every five (5) years. Antigua is a member of the Organization of Eastern Caribbean States (OECS), and is one of the fastest growing economies in that region. The currency is the Eastern Caribbean dollar, which is pegged to the US dollar at a rate of EC$2.7 to the dollar."[2] When I was growing up[I'm an Antiguan], Antigua had the most ip per users in the world. Even right now they are working to keep their infrastructure top notch. Investors don't invest in countries that are unstable[insert something about PESTLE here[3]]. The fact that it's a internet gambling hub testify to its stability for economic venture. The people in power are pretty cognizant of the fact that they need to appear stable and have a transparent democracy. [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigua#Internet_hosting_and_gaming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigua#Internet_hosting_and_ga... [2]http://www.investantiguabarbuda.org/abia/offshore/financial_services.aspx http://www.investantiguabarbuda.org/abia/offshore/financial_... [3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEST_analysis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEST_analysis
  - TheCowboy 15y ago
    Antigua-based Absolute Poker, which also bought and now owns Ultimate Bet, has been plagued with scandal after scandal with no oversight or intervention by the government. They also happened to be spending the cash of players, rather than carrying enough cash on hand to cover all obligations to players AND maintaining a firewall that keeps their deposits from being considered part of the corporation. Many professional players I know are out of significant sums of money. As a player myself, I don't consider Antigua-hosted gaming corporations trustworthy.
e03179 15y ago
Gambling from a mobile device will be huge. Not only will the gambling market see an explosion, but there will be spinoffs, such a security and cheat detection companies. Also, a market that is growing fast that you may not be aware of is daily fantasy sports. Fantasy Football is considered a "game of skill". So, companies are popping up that allow users to build "fantasy teams" that only play for one week. Basically, you are using your skill to pick the best players for the week. IMO, the companies that are doing well in this market have poor marketing and a 1990's aura about them. Someone could just in right now, buy a subscription to a stats provider, make a slick mobile app, and take the whole market.

20 points by pier0 15y ago

jc4p 15y ago

This could be big news for the guys over at Betable, whose blog is seemingly on the front page of HN every time they make a new post.

dmor 15y ago

Online gambling, and gambling in general, is is a huge opportunity. PokerStars and FultTilt poker were 1.0 versions of something that could be a much more powerful experience. Those sites primarily focused on taking offline games and bringing them online, without doing much to augment the experience. For every one of those who tried to make a living (for a minute) playing a dozen sit-and-go tournaments, or others who tried to write bots against the system, there were thousands of players just looking to relieve some stress after a long day. Personally, I'd like to see an intersection of gambling in the traditional sense with social games from Zynga and others and also with eGaming like Star Craft II and Diablo.

marquis 15y ago

As a concerned citizen who has seen gambling cause havoc in poor communities, I hope that the next revolution in online gambling is one where actually money is not required. For those of you thinking of the potential for income please consider where the money is coming from. While a gambler will still find somewhere to lose his/her money it would be heartening to see systems implemented that are on the lookout for addicts, while providing entertainment for those who can afford to spend (I have no problem with gambling and enjoy a game of poker, or going to the races, myself, but I 'play to lose'.)

paulhauggis 15y ago
"I hope that the next revolution in online gambling is one where actually money is not required." That's called Farmville and many other online games. The revolution, in that regard, is here. Business is all about risk. As an example: when you purchase advertising, you are gambling on the fact that you will get enough buyers to cover the cost of advertising. Should we ban advertising too? Instead of trying to protect the world by banning these things, we need to educate more people on their risks. If they choose not to listen, it is at their own peril. Hopefully they will learn life's harsh lessons.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- marquis 15y ago
  >Hopefully they will learn life's harsh lessons. I don't think that's really fair. Are you familiar with the effects of gambling in poor communities? Every pokie machine can have a sign on it that says 'Gambling ruins you and your family' and it doesn't help. Enabling a community to flourish in it's own right is what stops gambling. Anyway, what I was pointing out is that the online gambling industry has so far worked well to get money out of two types of people: those who can afford to lose, and those who can't. I'd like to see anyone going into this industry really focusing on the first group and not being predatory in attracting the second. How? I don't know but I'll support whoever manages it with my own poker-chip purchases. An example: be a good gambling franchise and put 30% of your profit into addiction awareness and support (something like this is mandatory in Australia for example I believe).

hello_moto 15y ago

Having been exposed in the so-called "Online Gaming" companies, I really wish there are less of them. Maybe it was a bad exposure/experience for me but those companies are filled with your typical fraudster/scammer (kind of like that MegaUpload guy, or the Bodog guy). If you looked at the recent trend in EPL (English Premier League, Football), it's a bit concerning where there are a few mediocre teams being sponsored by these companies and with lots of around the field ads promoting their sites.

moocow01 15y ago

Attention Startups, -- great opportunity-- you could be at the forefront of enriching yourselves with the money of America's poor and addicted! Of all the problems out there to be solved this is truly the one opportunity not to be missed... :(

cobrabyte 15y ago
I've always thought of poker as a game of skill. Sure, it's more or less dictated by the odds but a proficient player is able to make you second-guess those odds. I agree with you in regards to online slots and blackjack. There's a definite house edge and you're always playing a losing game in the long run. These games are engineered to give a false sense of strategy to less-intelligent participants. I don't think games of true skill should be lopped-in with slots and lotteries.
- yahelc 15y ago
  I don't think its a question of if poker is a skill; people, skilled or unskilled, can become dangerously addicted to poker and lose their shirts in the process. Most legitimate games of skill do not involve risking your livelihood to participate. To "disrupt" the gambling industry is to inevitably profit off of addicts. (Though, the same could be said of booze makers and alcoholics.)
  - paulhauggis 15y ago
    "To "disrupt" the gambling industry is to inevitably profit off of addicts." The same can be said about MMORPGS. I knew many people from highschool that never graduated because of this addiction. More people need to take personal responsibility for their decisions. Many people gamble and are not addicted.
    - cobrabyte 15y ago
      Absolutely. I've seen quite a few friends literally wreck their lives by playing WoW and other MMORPGs. I used to play poker with a group of local friends. It started off friendly enough ($50 tournaments). They started playing a lot of cash games and the table stakes got crazy (e.g. $1k+ hands). Needless to say, I left that group behind. It's a matter of personal discipline. If you can't afford to throw the money out the window, you shouldn't be playing. I play because I enjoy the game and the company of friends.

gexla 15y ago

A gambler will find a way to gamble his/her money. I'm assuming there are casino's in most states in the U.S. (Indian reservations) and online gambling laws weren't much of a deterrent to the hard core. I would rather the U.S. legalize and regulate gambling rather than leave the regulation to questionable jurisdictions in island nations I have never heard of. Competing in this space would be difficult. Licensing is expensive. The competition is huge and well entrenched.

chegra 15y ago
>>rather than leave the regulation to questionable jurisdictions in island nations I have never heard of. You never heard about a place but they are a questionable jurisdiction? "Antigua is a recognised centre for online gambling companies. Antigua was one of the very first nations to legalise, licence and regulate online gaming."[1] "Stable Jurisdiction: Antigua and Barbuda is an independent nation state with a stable Westminster-style democratic government. General elections are constitutionally due every five (5) years. Antigua is a member of the Organization of Eastern Caribbean States (OECS), and is one of the fastest growing economies in that region. The currency is the Eastern Caribbean dollar, which is pegged to the US dollar at a rate of EC$2.7 to the dollar."[2] When I was growing up[I'm an Antiguan], Antigua had the most ip per users in the world. Even right now they are working to keep their infrastructure top notch. Investors don't invest in countries that are unstable[insert something about PESTLE here[3]]. The fact that it's a internet gambling hub testify to its stability for economic venture. The people in power are pretty cognizant of the fact that they need to appear stable and have a transparent democracy. [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigua#Internet_hosting_and_gaming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigua#Internet_hosting_and_ga... [2]http://www.investantiguabarbuda.org/abia/offshore/financial_services.aspx http://www.investantiguabarbuda.org/abia/offshore/financial_... [3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEST_analysis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEST_analysis
- TheCowboy 15y ago
  Antigua-based Absolute Poker, which also bought and now owns Ultimate Bet, has been plagued with scandal after scandal with no oversight or intervention by the government. They also happened to be spending the cash of players, rather than carrying enough cash on hand to cover all obligations to players AND maintaining a firewall that keeps their deposits from being considered part of the corporation. Many professional players I know are out of significant sums of money. As a player myself, I don't consider Antigua-hosted gaming corporations trustworthy.

e03179 15y ago

Gambling from a mobile device will be huge. Not only will the gambling market see an explosion, but there will be spinoffs, such a security and cheat detection companies. Also, a market that is growing fast that you may not be aware of is daily fantasy sports. Fantasy Football is considered a "game of skill". So, companies are popping up that allow users to build "fantasy teams" that only play for one week. Basically, you are using your skill to pick the best players for the week. IMO, the companies that are doing well in this market have poor marketing and a 1990's aura about them. Someone could just in right now, buy a subscription to a stats provider, make a slick mobile app, and take the whole market.