9 ms·

This article feels like it was written for my brother. He's been fired, sequentially, 4 times in roles of progressively narrower scope/salary. From project man

This article feels like it was written for my brother. He's been fired, sequentially, 4 times in roles of progressively narrower scope/salary. From project manager (80k+) at a large NYC-BASED structured-cabling company to a billing coordinator position (<40k) at his most recent position. With the starting of each new job, him telling me this time it's going to be different and not end in his firing. It makes me want to put my head into a pillow and scream because he's an intelligent, sociable and kind person but his mind just sits so juxtaposed from what these companies want. However, I can see his mind move beneath his eyes when we converse, and then subsequently lose focus, so it's pretty apparent if you were to meet him. I can see how that translates to poor job performance. Unfortunately, due to a heavy-handed prescription dosage of adderall when he was young, he's pretty hesitant about trying a new regimen. I've tried pulling him into it by telling him my newly prescribed Semaglutide (Wegovy) medicine will also be a lifelong medication/issue too so we'll be in the trenches together.

EdwardDiego 4y ago
There are non-amphetamine medications available now that might work for your brother, and cognitive-behavioural therapy can really help too.
- s5300 4y ago
  While this is true, it is also true that Amphetamine is the Powerhouse of the Cell
  - Shared404 4y ago
    angry mitochondria sounds play in the background
- DannyBee 4y ago
  +1 After 30+ years, I have found the non-amphetamine medications work a lot more consistently and helpfully than the amphetamine ones. The one downside is that if your brother also ends up on SSRI's, he won't be able to use most of the non-amphetamine medications until he is done with SSRI's.
  - PragmaticPulp 4y ago
    > After 30+ years, I have found the non-amphetamine medications work a lot more consistently and helpfully than the amphetamine ones. I've watched a lot of friends go through the same cycle: Initial excitement from an Adderall prescription which gradually gives way to tolerance and a mismatch between reality and their perceptions of Adderall as a miracle pill. The non-stimulant medications have worked wonders for a lot of people I know. The catch (and it's a big one) is that they generally don't work immediately. In fact, they can be kind of unenjoyable for the first weeks or months while they begin to work. This is the exact opposite timeline of stimulants, which puts a lot of people off. If you can gradually titrate up and you're willing to give it a multi-month trial before ruling it out, the non-stimulant medications can actually be quite good. Some times better than the stimulants at controlling impulses and improving cognition, even. First-time stimulant users can easily get sidetracked by focusing too much on distractions. The other catch is that it's hard to objectively evaluate the positive changes when they happen gradually over the course of a month. A lot of Straterra (Atomoxetine) users will think the medication isn't working, but when you ask them to objectively walk through their daily routines and work performance they realize they've improved tremendously. For others, they don't realize the benefits until the quit the medication and lose the positives, at which point they're back for round 2 of titration.
    - DannyBee 4y ago
      Yes, exactly this. Straterra/others are interesting in that way. As you say, you don't get the immediate on/off feeling you do with amphetamines, which makes sense because of how it acts, but is a weird thing for those not used to it. Having had to switch on and off it a few times over 30 years for various medication complexities, as you say, you notice a few days later when it's gone.
- treeman79 4y ago
  Any recommendations? I took one that you take at night. It slightly improved my focus during day. But would leave me sleepy all day. Even with taking it before bed.
  - thethethethe 4y ago
    Wellbutrin worked wonders for me. Works immediately, similar to amphetamines and is easy to obtain legitimately.
    - chimeracoder 4y ago
      > is easy to obtain legitimately. Depends on the country. In Europe, it's not so easy. In the UK, the last I checked, it was contraindicated for long-term use, meaning it could be used for smoking cessation but not for long-term ADHD treatment. > similar to amphetamines Wellbutrin has a very different mechanism of action, and a different effectiveness profile. I wouldn't say it's "similar to amphetamines" in any clinical sense.
      - thethethethe 4y ago
        I was just saying it is similar on the sense that it works right away and has a noticeable effect, unlike other depression meds that people take, like SSRIs which take months to kick in
      - professor_meow 4y ago
        > In the UK, the last I checked, it was contraindicated for long-term use, meaning it could be used for smoking cessation but not for long-term ADHD treatment. It is not a typical treatment, but a psychiatrist in the UK does have the discretion to prescribe Bupropion off-label. In my own n=1 experience, as a fourth option, only after unsatisfactory trials of more traditional stimulants and Atomoxetine.
    - jstarfish 4y ago
      A counterpoint from my own experience: For me it was like rediscovering caffeine for the first time, which lasted about six months altogether. Then the positive effects waned and it became a self-inflicted case of acid reflux. Would never describe it as being similar to amphetamines. The most praise I can give it is as "an antidepressant that kinda sorta works."
marketerinland 4y ago
Hey. Sorry to hear this. I have also been fired a bunch of times, and people describe interacting with me in the exact same way as you just described it. Your brother is consistently going for the wrong kind of job, from the sound of it. Operations jobs. I eventually succeeded when I switched to work that is more strategic and creative. I got really into language learning, blogging, website building, and then just followed things forward. I then eventually became head of marketing for two different startups. And now I run a bootstrapped company that is exploding in growth. We’ll probably do $10m+ next year in revenue. I pay people to take care of details while constantly explaining to them what my vision is. I KNOW the feeling when you see people lose faith in you. You can literally see it in their eyes. And I also - finally - know the opposite feeling. That of admiration and appreciation. Please show this to your brother.
- methyl 4y ago
  I also run a bootstrapped company around with $10M reve as an ADHD founder. Drop an email to lucjan at surferseo.com, I’d love to chat and share experiences.
  - Disruptive_Dave 4y ago
    Big fan of you guys.
- ekanes 4y ago
  +1. As a founder with adhd and it was a strength not a weakness. Constant change and problem solving is exhilarating.
- cowpig 4y ago
  I've had a less extreme version of this but similar arc: I have ADHD, I've always underachieved at normal jobs, founded my own company and now run a successful business (though it's certainly been a bumpy ride).
- adhdguy 4y ago
  I think I'm like you. I'm usually the smartest guy in the room, a phenomenal problem solver and brainstormer, and a great engineer and lawyer. I'm currently doing great in a very easy and rewarding job I stumbled into, but it has a time limit. I tried stimulants years ago but it made me feel physically awful (jaw grinding, digestive problems, heart palpitations, exhaustion, etc.) and didn't actually help (I'd just get hyperfocused on distractions). Also tried guanfacine and had other negative reactions. I've actually been thinking of starting a business as a better match than a desk job before I saw all this ADHD founder talk. Reading these comments makes me feel so encouraged. Thank you.
treeman79 4y ago
In 40s now. Diagnosed a couple years ago. My career was a mix of huge successes and horrible failure. Really hard complicated and interesting projects I would shine at. Basically CTO founder type roles I was amazing. I stunk at routine day to day work. For me the worst pain possible is boredom. I’ve had kidney stones. Boredom is in same range. First time I took medication was shocking to find that the pain of boredom was gone. I had no idea that was possible.
- whycome 4y ago
  What did you end up taking? Similar boat
  - treeman79 4y ago
    Vyvanse works best for me. But Causes me a lot of pain. So I only rarely take it.
    - JoeJonathan 4y ago
      Was your doctor reluctant to prescribe it for occasional use? As I understand it, providers typically expect you take ADHD meds daily. I ask because my attention issues are task-dependent, but doctors tend to view even the suggestion of occasional use as a red flag for recreational abuse.
      - projectazorian 4y ago
        > As I understand it, providers typically expect you take ADHD meds daily. I don't think this is the case - mine recommends 5-6 days a week maximum to avoid building up tolerance, and I believe this is fairly standard advice. And occasional longer breaks are encouraged for the same reason.
      - treeman79 4y ago
        Oddly enough I was prescribed it initially chronic fatigue syndrome and early onset dementia. Later figured out that Demtia was from autoimmune and other conditions Later I got a proper diagnosis for adhd.
hateful 4y ago
The fact that he's intelligent make him what we refer to in the ADHD world as Twice Exceptional (me included!). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa5v1a2H-xs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa5v1a2H-xs
- michael_j_ward 4y ago
  Despite seeing myself almost precisely described in that video and the original article, and despite having been diagnosed with ADHD as a college student... It's hard for me to believe that there exists persons that won't / don't identify with that description, and thus the cause of my executive dysfunction isn't ADHD, but just a failure to cultivate habits of discipline.
  - LocalPCGuy 4y ago
    People who are gifted definitely do just what I think you are saying - they blame their failures on their own personal inabilities to cultivate habits. And because they are smart, they were often able to compensate for potential ADHD symptoms throughout school and while young, and so it's often ruled out and not even considered until they are adults (and then often not considered because they "did good in school" etc.) Obviously not everyone who thinks they are gifted actually is, but talking about those that are here. As one of those persons (tested 98th percentile on SAT in 8th grade, for example, and was in gifted or advanced classes until I just got bored of "extra work"), I think it is important to really consider this and reflect on whether or not something like ADHD could be at play and getting in the way of life goals. The rejection sensitivity dysphoria mentioned in the article, while it is not a diagnosed condition (won't find it in the DSM), does describe one of the states of mind of a lot of people with undiagnosed ADHD because of a lot of negative conditioning for many years, being told they just didn't have enough willpower to do things "right".
  - ojkelly 4y ago
    They exist, and there’s usually a mourning period when you have to truly grapple with understanding things really are harder for us. “a failure to cultivate habits of discipline” is an _outcome of ADHD_. Executive dysfunction is preventing the cultivation of habits, not to say it’s impossible but they’re usually connected. A useful trick here is to accomodate the lacking parts of the ADHD brain, with external consequences and external timekeeping. External accountability and consequences such as a gym buddy (who you don’t want to let down), or needing to get your work done to get paid (so you can eat). And external timekeeping is critical because we are time-blind [0]. Whether it’s a calendar, setting reminders, etc. “People with ADHD know what to do, but they can’t do what they know.” [0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JowPOqRmxNs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JowPOqRmxNs
jvm___ 4y ago
Do you think Abraham Lincoln's brother had ADHD? Washington, December 24, 1848 Dear Johnston: Your request for eighty dollars, I do not think it best, to comply with now. At the various times when I have helped you a little, you have said to me ``We can get along very well now'' but in a very short time I find you in the same difficulty again. Now this can only happen by some defect in your conduct. What that defect is I think I know. You are not lazy, and still you are an idler. I doubt whether since I saw you, you have done a good whole day's work in any one day. You do not very much dislike to work; and still you do not work much, merely because it does not seem to you that you could get much for it. This habit of uselessly wasting time, is the whole difficulty; and it is vastly important to you, and still more so to your children that you should break this habit. It is more important to them, because they have longer to live, and can keep out of an idle habit before they are in it; easier than they can get out after they are in. You are now in need of some ready money; and what I propose is, that you shall go to work, ``tooth and nails'' for some body who will give you money [for] it. Let father and your boys take charge of things at home---prepare for a crop, and make the crop; and you go to work for the best money wages, or in discharge of any debt you owe, that you can get. And to secure you a fair reward for your labor, I now promise you, that for every dollar you will, between this and the first of next May, get for your own labor, either in money, or in your own indebtedness, I will then give you one other dollar. By this, if you hire yourself at ten dolla[rs] a month, from me you will get ten more, making twenty dollars a month for your work. In this, I do not mean you shall go off to St. Louis, or the lead mines, or the gold mines, in Calif[ornia,] but I [mean for you to go at it for the best wages you] can get close to home [in] Coles county. Now if you will do this, you will soon be out of debt, and what is better, you will have a habit that will keep you from getting in debt again. But if I should now clear you out, next year you will be just as deep in as ever. You say you would almost give your place in Heaven for $70 or $80. Then you value your place in Heaven very cheaply for I am sure you can with the offer I make you get the seventy or eighty dollars for four or five months work. You say if I furnish you the money you will deed me the land, and, if you dont pay the money back, you will deliver possession. Nonsense! If you cant now live with the land, how will you then live without it? You have always been [kind] to me, and I do not now mean to be unkind to you. On the contrary, if you will but follow my advice, you will find it worth more than eight times eighty dollars to you. Affectionately Your brother A. LINCOLN
marcusverus 4y ago
I'm sorry to hear that your brother has been turned off by his childhood experience with the meds. I had a similar experience. I was on Ritalin from the time I was ~7 until I graduated from high school. When I graduated I thought "great! I don't have to take that shit anymore!"... and I proceeded to waste the next ~12 years of my life. Going back on meds at ~30 was completely transformative--like waking up from a bad dream. Even if he won't take the meds, he could still benefit from one of the many ADHD workbooks that are out there. I was initially skeptical, but I finally bought one[0] and worked through it, and I found it to be really helpful. I had always thought of my ADHD as one problem (I just can't attention!), but the workbook breaks it down into distinct sub-problems, one of which (poor mental flexibility) I honestly hadn't even recognized as a problem until I read the book. For me, breaking down the problem has made it easier to deal with. Another thing that might help him out is journaling. I am still occasionally able to go weeks without a conscious awareness that ADHD is wreaking havoc in my life--but not when I'm journaling. By setting aside a little time each night to A) reflect on my values and B) take stock of the day, the feedback loop goes from days/weeks down to 24 hours, which makes it much, much easier to prevent my disease from having a negative impact on me and my loved ones. Sorry for all the unsolicited advice. You sound like a good brother, and I figured this might help. Godspeed. [0]https://www.amazon.com/Thriving-Adult-ADHD-Strengthen-Functioning/dp/1641522720/ref=sr_1_9?crid=2APPYTI6ED72U&keywords=adhd+workbook&qid=1670885881&sprefix=adhd+workbook%2Caps%2C91&sr=8-9 https://www.amazon.com/Thriving-Adult-ADHD-Strengthen-Functi...
annie_muss 4y ago
This resonates with me a lot. I've been through a lot of jobs, each time starting with a combination of excitement ("Yay, I got the job!") and fear ("I hope I don't mess this one up. I've really gotta keep it for at least a year"). The novelty of a new job pushes you through the first month or two, and then things get harder and harder to complete. My mind is buzzing with thoughts, ideas, side projects and they slowly creep into your brain. Before you know it you're sitting at you computer for 8 hours but getting nothing done. Wishing your brother the best.
eternityforest 4y ago
What is his actual performance issue? Is it the kind of thing that can be fixed by stopping trying to do things yourself? I used to be in the habit of trying to do things manually, trying to remember things without google assistant, navigating without GPS, not buying "Unnecessary" things like smarthome devices. My first line of fixing mistakes was... nothing. I just assumed I would get better at things I do every day over time and no longer make the mistakes. Until I realized I would make a new type of mistake for the first time, then make it again the next day. It almost seems like when I practice things the wrong action gets reinforced just as much as the correct action and I sometimes actively get worse with practice unless I'm carefully watching every step so there are no errors. Now the fridge has a sensor so I don't leave it open, and I assume that the future doesn't exist, only computers are capable of remembering something at a future date. I doubt I'll ever be able to do the stuff that really matters, the things that can't be done with plans and gadgets, like driving or useful levels of math, but onsite maintenance engineering is not a problem for me. Then again, I'm pretty sure I have dyspraxia, not ADHD, I don't get distracted easily or have multiple thoughts running at once or anything like that.
Khelavaster 4y ago
It's not accurate that either medicine will for sure be a lifelong medication. No way you can know that. Neither of you need to be "in the trenches" for extended periods of your life..

EdwardDiego 4y ago

There are non-amphetamine medications available now that might work for your brother, and cognitive-behavioural therapy can really help too.

s5300 4y ago
While this is true, it is also true that Amphetamine is the Powerhouse of the Cell
- Shared404 4y ago
  angry mitochondria sounds play in the background
DannyBee 4y ago
+1 After 30+ years, I have found the non-amphetamine medications work a lot more consistently and helpfully than the amphetamine ones. The one downside is that if your brother also ends up on SSRI's, he won't be able to use most of the non-amphetamine medications until he is done with SSRI's.
- PragmaticPulp 4y ago
  > After 30+ years, I have found the non-amphetamine medications work a lot more consistently and helpfully than the amphetamine ones. I've watched a lot of friends go through the same cycle: Initial excitement from an Adderall prescription which gradually gives way to tolerance and a mismatch between reality and their perceptions of Adderall as a miracle pill. The non-stimulant medications have worked wonders for a lot of people I know. The catch (and it's a big one) is that they generally don't work immediately. In fact, they can be kind of unenjoyable for the first weeks or months while they begin to work. This is the exact opposite timeline of stimulants, which puts a lot of people off. If you can gradually titrate up and you're willing to give it a multi-month trial before ruling it out, the non-stimulant medications can actually be quite good. Some times better than the stimulants at controlling impulses and improving cognition, even. First-time stimulant users can easily get sidetracked by focusing too much on distractions. The other catch is that it's hard to objectively evaluate the positive changes when they happen gradually over the course of a month. A lot of Straterra (Atomoxetine) users will think the medication isn't working, but when you ask them to objectively walk through their daily routines and work performance they realize they've improved tremendously. For others, they don't realize the benefits until the quit the medication and lose the positives, at which point they're back for round 2 of titration.
  - DannyBee 4y ago
    Yes, exactly this. Straterra/others are interesting in that way. As you say, you don't get the immediate on/off feeling you do with amphetamines, which makes sense because of how it acts, but is a weird thing for those not used to it. Having had to switch on and off it a few times over 30 years for various medication complexities, as you say, you notice a few days later when it's gone.
treeman79 4y ago
Any recommendations? I took one that you take at night. It slightly improved my focus during day. But would leave me sleepy all day. Even with taking it before bed.
- thethethethe 4y ago
  Wellbutrin worked wonders for me. Works immediately, similar to amphetamines and is easy to obtain legitimately.
  - chimeracoder 4y ago
    > is easy to obtain legitimately. Depends on the country. In Europe, it's not so easy. In the UK, the last I checked, it was contraindicated for long-term use, meaning it could be used for smoking cessation but not for long-term ADHD treatment. > similar to amphetamines Wellbutrin has a very different mechanism of action, and a different effectiveness profile. I wouldn't say it's "similar to amphetamines" in any clinical sense.
    - thethethethe 4y ago
      I was just saying it is similar on the sense that it works right away and has a noticeable effect, unlike other depression meds that people take, like SSRIs which take months to kick in
    - professor_meow 4y ago
      > In the UK, the last I checked, it was contraindicated for long-term use, meaning it could be used for smoking cessation but not for long-term ADHD treatment. It is not a typical treatment, but a psychiatrist in the UK does have the discretion to prescribe Bupropion off-label. In my own n=1 experience, as a fourth option, only after unsatisfactory trials of more traditional stimulants and Atomoxetine.
  - jstarfish 4y ago
    A counterpoint from my own experience: For me it was like rediscovering caffeine for the first time, which lasted about six months altogether. Then the positive effects waned and it became a self-inflicted case of acid reflux. Would never describe it as being similar to amphetamines. The most praise I can give it is as "an antidepressant that kinda sorta works."

marketerinland 4y ago

Hey. Sorry to hear this. I have also been fired a bunch of times, and people describe interacting with me in the exact same way as you just described it. Your brother is consistently going for the wrong kind of job, from the sound of it. Operations jobs. I eventually succeeded when I switched to work that is more strategic and creative. I got really into language learning, blogging, website building, and then just followed things forward. I then eventually became head of marketing for two different startups. And now I run a bootstrapped company that is exploding in growth. We’ll probably do $10m+ next year in revenue. I pay people to take care of details while constantly explaining to them what my vision is. I KNOW the feeling when you see people lose faith in you. You can literally see it in their eyes. And I also - finally - know the opposite feeling. That of admiration and appreciation. Please show this to your brother.

methyl 4y ago
I also run a bootstrapped company around with $10M reve as an ADHD founder. Drop an email to lucjan at surferseo.com, I’d love to chat and share experiences.
- Disruptive_Dave 4y ago
  Big fan of you guys.
ekanes 4y ago
+1. As a founder with adhd and it was a strength not a weakness. Constant change and problem solving is exhilarating.
cowpig 4y ago
I've had a less extreme version of this but similar arc: I have ADHD, I've always underachieved at normal jobs, founded my own company and now run a successful business (though it's certainly been a bumpy ride).
adhdguy 4y ago
I think I'm like you. I'm usually the smartest guy in the room, a phenomenal problem solver and brainstormer, and a great engineer and lawyer. I'm currently doing great in a very easy and rewarding job I stumbled into, but it has a time limit. I tried stimulants years ago but it made me feel physically awful (jaw grinding, digestive problems, heart palpitations, exhaustion, etc.) and didn't actually help (I'd just get hyperfocused on distractions). Also tried guanfacine and had other negative reactions. I've actually been thinking of starting a business as a better match than a desk job before I saw all this ADHD founder talk. Reading these comments makes me feel so encouraged. Thank you.

treeman79 4y ago

In 40s now. Diagnosed a couple years ago. My career was a mix of huge successes and horrible failure. Really hard complicated and interesting projects I would shine at. Basically CTO founder type roles I was amazing. I stunk at routine day to day work. For me the worst pain possible is boredom. I’ve had kidney stones. Boredom is in same range. First time I took medication was shocking to find that the pain of boredom was gone. I had no idea that was possible.

whycome 4y ago
What did you end up taking? Similar boat
- treeman79 4y ago
  Vyvanse works best for me. But Causes me a lot of pain. So I only rarely take it.
  - JoeJonathan 4y ago
    Was your doctor reluctant to prescribe it for occasional use? As I understand it, providers typically expect you take ADHD meds daily. I ask because my attention issues are task-dependent, but doctors tend to view even the suggestion of occasional use as a red flag for recreational abuse.
    - projectazorian 4y ago
      > As I understand it, providers typically expect you take ADHD meds daily. I don't think this is the case - mine recommends 5-6 days a week maximum to avoid building up tolerance, and I believe this is fairly standard advice. And occasional longer breaks are encouraged for the same reason.
    - treeman79 4y ago
      Oddly enough I was prescribed it initially chronic fatigue syndrome and early onset dementia. Later figured out that Demtia was from autoimmune and other conditions Later I got a proper diagnosis for adhd.

hateful 4y ago

The fact that he's intelligent make him what we refer to in the ADHD world as Twice Exceptional (me included!). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa5v1a2H-xs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa5v1a2H-xs

michael_j_ward 4y ago
Despite seeing myself almost precisely described in that video and the original article, and despite having been diagnosed with ADHD as a college student... It's hard for me to believe that there exists persons that won't / don't identify with that description, and thus the cause of my executive dysfunction isn't ADHD, but just a failure to cultivate habits of discipline.
- LocalPCGuy 4y ago
  People who are gifted definitely do just what I think you are saying - they blame their failures on their own personal inabilities to cultivate habits. And because they are smart, they were often able to compensate for potential ADHD symptoms throughout school and while young, and so it's often ruled out and not even considered until they are adults (and then often not considered because they "did good in school" etc.) Obviously not everyone who thinks they are gifted actually is, but talking about those that are here. As one of those persons (tested 98th percentile on SAT in 8th grade, for example, and was in gifted or advanced classes until I just got bored of "extra work"), I think it is important to really consider this and reflect on whether or not something like ADHD could be at play and getting in the way of life goals. The rejection sensitivity dysphoria mentioned in the article, while it is not a diagnosed condition (won't find it in the DSM), does describe one of the states of mind of a lot of people with undiagnosed ADHD because of a lot of negative conditioning for many years, being told they just didn't have enough willpower to do things "right".
- ojkelly 4y ago
  They exist, and there’s usually a mourning period when you have to truly grapple with understanding things really are harder for us. “a failure to cultivate habits of discipline” is an _outcome of ADHD_. Executive dysfunction is preventing the cultivation of habits, not to say it’s impossible but they’re usually connected. A useful trick here is to accomodate the lacking parts of the ADHD brain, with external consequences and external timekeeping. External accountability and consequences such as a gym buddy (who you don’t want to let down), or needing to get your work done to get paid (so you can eat). And external timekeeping is critical because we are time-blind [0]. Whether it’s a calendar, setting reminders, etc. “People with ADHD know what to do, but they can’t do what they know.” [0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JowPOqRmxNs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JowPOqRmxNs

jvm___ 4y ago

Do you think Abraham Lincoln's brother had ADHD? Washington, December 24, 1848 Dear Johnston: Your request for eighty dollars, I do not think it best, to comply with now. At the various times when I have helped you a little, you have said to me ``We can get along very well now'' but in a very short time I find you in the same difficulty again. Now this can only happen by some defect in your conduct. What that defect is I think I know. You are not lazy, and still you are an idler. I doubt whether since I saw you, you have done a good whole day's work in any one day. You do not very much dislike to work; and still you do not work much, merely because it does not seem to you that you could get much for it. This habit of uselessly wasting time, is the whole difficulty; and it is vastly important to you, and still more so to your children that you should break this habit. It is more important to them, because they have longer to live, and can keep out of an idle habit before they are in it; easier than they can get out after they are in. You are now in need of some ready money; and what I propose is, that you shall go to work, ``tooth and nails'' for some body who will give you money [for] it. Let father and your boys take charge of things at home---prepare for a crop, and make the crop; and you go to work for the best money wages, or in discharge of any debt you owe, that you can get. And to secure you a fair reward for your labor, I now promise you, that for every dollar you will, between this and the first of next May, get for your own labor, either in money, or in your own indebtedness, I will then give you one other dollar. By this, if you hire yourself at ten dolla[rs] a month, from me you will get ten more, making twenty dollars a month for your work. In this, I do not mean you shall go off to St. Louis, or the lead mines, or the gold mines, in Calif[ornia,] but I [mean for you to go at it for the best wages you] can get close to home [in] Coles county. Now if you will do this, you will soon be out of debt, and what is better, you will have a habit that will keep you from getting in debt again. But if I should now clear you out, next year you will be just as deep in as ever. You say you would almost give your place in Heaven for $70 or $80. Then you value your place in Heaven very cheaply for I am sure you can with the offer I make you get the seventy or eighty dollars for four or five months work. You say if I furnish you the money you will deed me the land, and, if you dont pay the money back, you will deliver possession. Nonsense! If you cant now live with the land, how will you then live without it? You have always been [kind] to me, and I do not now mean to be unkind to you. On the contrary, if you will but follow my advice, you will find it worth more than eight times eighty dollars to you. Affectionately Your brother A. LINCOLN

marcusverus 4y ago

I'm sorry to hear that your brother has been turned off by his childhood experience with the meds. I had a similar experience. I was on Ritalin from the time I was ~7 until I graduated from high school. When I graduated I thought "great! I don't have to take that shit anymore!"... and I proceeded to waste the next ~12 years of my life. Going back on meds at ~30 was completely transformative--like waking up from a bad dream. Even if he won't take the meds, he could still benefit from one of the many ADHD workbooks that are out there. I was initially skeptical, but I finally bought one[0] and worked through it, and I found it to be really helpful. I had always thought of my ADHD as one problem (I just can't attention!), but the workbook breaks it down into distinct sub-problems, one of which (poor mental flexibility) I honestly hadn't even recognized as a problem until I read the book. For me, breaking down the problem has made it easier to deal with. Another thing that might help him out is journaling. I am still occasionally able to go weeks without a conscious awareness that ADHD is wreaking havoc in my life--but not when I'm journaling. By setting aside a little time each night to A) reflect on my values and B) take stock of the day, the feedback loop goes from days/weeks down to 24 hours, which makes it much, much easier to prevent my disease from having a negative impact on me and my loved ones. Sorry for all the unsolicited advice. You sound like a good brother, and I figured this might help. Godspeed. [0]https://www.amazon.com/Thriving-Adult-ADHD-Strengthen-Functioning/dp/1641522720/ref=sr_1_9?crid=2APPYTI6ED72U&keywords=adhd+workbook&qid=1670885881&sprefix=adhd+workbook%2Caps%2C91&sr=8-9 https://www.amazon.com/Thriving-Adult-ADHD-Strengthen-Functi...

annie_muss 4y ago

This resonates with me a lot. I've been through a lot of jobs, each time starting with a combination of excitement ("Yay, I got the job!") and fear ("I hope I don't mess this one up. I've really gotta keep it for at least a year"). The novelty of a new job pushes you through the first month or two, and then things get harder and harder to complete. My mind is buzzing with thoughts, ideas, side projects and they slowly creep into your brain. Before you know it you're sitting at you computer for 8 hours but getting nothing done. Wishing your brother the best.

eternityforest 4y ago

What is his actual performance issue? Is it the kind of thing that can be fixed by stopping trying to do things yourself? I used to be in the habit of trying to do things manually, trying to remember things without google assistant, navigating without GPS, not buying "Unnecessary" things like smarthome devices. My first line of fixing mistakes was... nothing. I just assumed I would get better at things I do every day over time and no longer make the mistakes. Until I realized I would make a new type of mistake for the first time, then make it again the next day. It almost seems like when I practice things the wrong action gets reinforced just as much as the correct action and I sometimes actively get worse with practice unless I'm carefully watching every step so there are no errors. Now the fridge has a sensor so I don't leave it open, and I assume that the future doesn't exist, only computers are capable of remembering something at a future date. I doubt I'll ever be able to do the stuff that really matters, the things that can't be done with plans and gadgets, like driving or useful levels of math, but onsite maintenance engineering is not a problem for me. Then again, I'm pretty sure I have dyspraxia, not ADHD, I don't get distracted easily or have multiple thoughts running at once or anything like that.

Khelavaster 4y ago

It's not accurate that either medicine will for sure be a lifelong medication. No way you can know that. Neither of you need to be "in the trenches" for extended periods of your life..