9 ms·

Tesla is becoming a partisan brand, says survey

59 points by redbell 4y ago

throwawayacc3 4y ago
This is a symptom of the macro-level bifurcation of the economy and the things/ways we consume. Completely parallel economies that signal what side you're on won't be fiction for long.
noncoml 4y ago
I am thankful that society is rejecting sociopathic cult leaders like Trump and Musk. I was starting to lose hope. It still is a pity that everything has to be about politics. Tesla paved the way for the electric cars and was a net positive for society. I hope the stockholders see that Musk is more of a liability now, and kick him out.
- claytongulick 4y ago
  It's really strange how people allow their political ideology to color their thinking. Musk a "sociopathic cult leader?" He gets this label apparently because he believes in the marketplace of ideas. That's now equivalent to sociopathic tendencies? And because a lot of people agree with that freedom of expression (sort of the reason the U.S. was founded, and the thing that a lot of people have fought and died for) he's a cult leader? Roughly half or more of folks in this country tend to agree with him on a lot of things. That's a cult? They are all just dumb or something? From Locke to Sewell, they are brainwashed cultists too? Or is it maybe possible that reasonable people can disagree?
  - noncoml 4y ago
    > It's really strange how people allow their political ideology to color their thinking I think that it is you that is trying to make this political. I referred to two specific people, one of which is supposed to be "not left, nor right". So why are you trying to paint it political? If anything I explicitly said in the post you replied that I find it sad that people are all about politics these days. Since you support freedom of ideas I ask you to respect my opinion about Musk, which has nothing to do with his claim of "marketplace of ideas" but a lot to do with all the other opinions he posts online. I would go into detail what are the things that he says that make him appear like a "sociopathic cult leader" to me, if you want. But by your message it sounded like you are sure that I don't like Musk because I don't support free speech. So, not sure it's worth continuing the discussion. I'll just leave this here for reference: https://www.psychmechanics.com/characteristics-of-cult-leaders/ https://www.psychmechanics.com/characteristics-of-cult-leade...
    - claytongulick 4y ago
      You called a former president of the United States and a successful serial entrepreneur sociopathic cult leaders. And yet somehow, you're redirecting to accuse me of making your very clearly biased post political. This is what I mean by how our ideology colors our thinking.
      - noncoml 4y ago
        Socrates is a philosopher. Socrates is a human. Hence all humans are philosophers? Can you explain why do you keep insisting that me calling Musk a sociopathic cult leader has anything to do with politics?
Ekaros 4y ago
I hope this will lead to brands that just shut up and sell stuff. And do not attempt to signal anything in anyway.
- HPMOR 4y ago
  I believe consumption patterns in general will reflect political leaning. For example a college kid probably travels to and from home requiring airline tickets, Uber, etc. Whereas a rural kid might have need of satellite wifi and diesel vehicles for long haul trips. These are inherently different consumption patterns that require brands to pick sides for their respective consumers. If anything the trend of companies choosing political sides will become exacerbated by consumers.
  - hakfoo 4y ago
    That applies to an extent, but there's plenty of products that sell across the political spectrum. I might not buy a work truck, and my neighbour might not be interested in fiber internet, but we both buy hamburgers. I could see this break two ways: 1. Investors start handing companies their asses for throwing away potential customers. 2. There's just enough extra margin available in segmenting their customers that politically flaired brands end up being successful. Obviously that gets toxic fast if it works, but will it actually pan out? I can see brands trying to be "big fish in a small pond" by being the "anti-woke" (or "woke") choice, but will people really pay a premium for it? I could see choosing Lyft over Uber, or ordering a mainboard from B&H instead of Amazon, when the price is more or less the same, but I'm not sure I can justify paying 20% more.
- badRNG 4y ago
  It is often a bad bet in the long run to associate your brand with specific conservative causes. Conservatism, and right-reactionary thought, often exists as a critique or skepticism of the ideology and programs that progressives and leftists wish to enact. Sometimes the criticism is warranted, and this skepticism is an important part of civil discourse. Inevitably however, sometimes progressive causes will win and overcome their detractors. If you tied your brand to a critique of gay marriage, the Civil Rights Movement, or women's suffrage, your brand would face far more damage than being critical of rightist causes.
ericb 4y ago
I have so much trouble squaring the "genius" narrative with the "alienating the core constituency that buys electric vehicles by making my personal brand into a MAGA hat" reality. Isn't moving humanity to mars the ultimate in cautious, long-term thinking while burning your personal and company brand value the ultimate in reckless short term thinking? The apparent rationality and irrationality blows my mind.
- Veedrac 4y ago
  You're probably having trouble because neither Musk's narrative nor edge have come from being a cunning salesperson. This is “Tesla stock price is too high imo” Musk, robotaxi next year Musk, other person is a pedophile Musk, yell at legal authorities Musk. Musk's edge has come from tackling hard, technical problems, and doing so successfully, for long enough, on enticing enough problems, that people started to buy the dream. Contrast, leftist flamebait is just Musk being impolitic on Twitter, and an increasingly-hostile anti-left Musk is just what you get when the left runs campaigns specifically attacking him. It's not a smart business move because it's not a business move, merely a reflection of the increasing polarization of America.
  - MrMan 4y ago
    You are dead wrong about a lot of things here. Musk may not seem like a salesman to you, but he is actually one of the best salesmen and marketers we have seen, and created the major brands which have enriched him basically entirely using media coverage of him and his companies, and massive social media reach using his personal twitter account. In my opinion the one thing he is truly good at is sales and marketing. Selling the dream, and a very good design team, is what made Tesla what it is. I have no comment on whether technical solutions requiring the coordination of hundreds and thousands of people can be credited to one non-technical person, nor the political stuff.
    - Veedrac 4y ago
      It's political to say it now, but Musk is technical. Here's some evidence to that effect[1]. I know of more accounts, but really, just watch the Starbase tour videos and make up your own mind. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/evidence_that_musk_is_the_chief_engineer_of_spacex/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/eviden...
legitster 4y ago
Whether intentionally or not, I think he instinctively has been trying to disassociate "his brand" from the rest of the green or progressive movements overall. The electric car industry suffered for decades under the NPR and kombucha crowd. But if there is one common thread to his success, it has been to completely ignore the existing identifiable market and make your own (Paypal, SpaceX, Tesla). Musk wanted bros and rednecks and meat-eating red-blooded Americans all alike to think a Tesla is cool. Actual environmentalists would follow suit regardless as a captive market - waste no effort on them. And I think he sees Twitter the same way. Twitter's core demographic is a captive group of left-leaning educated users. If he can successfully flip a switch to appeal to everyone else in America, and hold on to enough captive current users in the process, he will have successfully grown the pie. I don't actually know if this is Musk's blatant strategy or if he is "crazy like a fox". But Musk has engaged in conservative-leaning flame wars for several years at this point. However, he just recently admitted to casting his first vote for a Republican this election cycle. That means during all of those years he was saying flamboyant things and meeting with Trump etc, he was largely saying one thing and doing another. So I'm leaning towards the idea that he is a bit more coy than he lets on and sees political drama as a sort of business asset.
- aeternum 4y ago
  It would be quite amazing if this was all a ploy to actually gain a larger market for Tesla. During the pandemic, the techies had all the disposable income and were the key Tesla market. Now the pendulum has swung the other way and the energy sector and more traditional businesses have seen a resurgence. Makes sense to increase appeal to that more conservative-leaning demographic.
- over_bridge 4y ago
  There's definitely some merit to this view. It's much like how in a political primary all candidates pander to the extreme so that they win and then immediately ignore them and pivot to the other side to scoop up votes from the other party. If you are true left or right you are a captive audience of your respective center left or center right party. It's cynical and dishonest but it works. There's no reason to think that Musk isn't as single minded about his own goals as those parties are about winning. This is the best case for his behavior. Unless hydrogen takes off and captures the environmentalists, they have nowhere to go but EVs. Watch him pivot back fast if that does happen, and push further into the 'rolling coal' crowd until then. I still wish him success but I no longer like him. I doubt he cares.
Nomentatus 4y ago
"One Swallow Does Make a Summer, says Survey"
more_corn 4y ago
This is fantastic news! I never would have thought there’d be a day when conservatives could own the libs by buying an electric car.
- goatlover 4y ago
  Does it roll electric coal?
  - dieselgate 4y ago
    Rolling “coal” with biodiesel or renewable diesel is still a thing..
- throwayyy479087 4y ago
  This is honestly a great thing for the planet
  - godshatter 4y ago
    Not if all the libs drop it like a hot potato. It's a 50/50 split, more-or-less. We really, really, need to do something about this political polarization. I put it up there above climate change as an existential problem for the US.
    - harpiaharpyja 4y ago
      I don't think libs are going to just drop electric cars. They'll move to other brands.
    - erik_seaberg 4y ago
      Aren’t conservatives more likely to live in exurban or rural areas with enough private space for charging an EV overnight?
- yummypaint 4y ago
  I agree. Getting vanity truck engines off the roads is a fundamentally different problem than getting large truck engines off the roads in general. These decisions aren't made rationally for many people so attacking them with logic is bound to fail. If we can transition culture war conservatives from doing the wrong thing for the wrong reason to doing the right thing for the wrong reason, that would be progress.
clouddrover 4y ago
How much longer will Tesla tolerate Musk as CEO? How much work is Tesla getting out of him these days when he's wasting his time on Twitter and stage appearances? How is he helping Tesla when he's alienating existing and potential customers with his petty antics and rants? Musk seems determined to become more cost than benefit.
akomtu 4y ago
Tesla has always been a partisan brand, and the party loved it until Musk started mocking their quasi-religion.
- glonq 4y ago
  I don't think that's true, especially outside the US. I bought my Tesla because it's a really good bang-for-the-buck electric car. My political ideogies are not particularly aligned with Elon Musk's, but that doesn't really affect my purchasing decision. What do you mean about 'religion'?
lazyeye 4y ago
Note how it's only "partisan" when they are perceived to lean in one particular direction only. Despite multiple very close elections the other side is the "mainstream consensus" of course.
- tene80i 4y ago
  What examples of partisan leaning in the other direction would you say are being overlooked? Some other companies / CEOs?
  - lazyeye 4y ago
    Have you been paying much attention to what Twitter has been doing for the last few years? Particularly leading up to the last election?
    - tene80i 4y ago
      Sure, but what do you think is being overlooked, or presented as mainstream opinion when it arguably isn’t?
      - lazyeye 4y ago
        I'm not going to start debating specifics. Clearly up until very recently Twitter has leaned left. I don't see how anyone with basic comprehension skills can dispute that.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        tene80i 4y ago
        Without specifics, this isn’t a matter of comprehension skills. Broad, evidence-free claims cannot be argued with.
        4y ago
la64710 4y ago
This is quite brilliant . I am sure most of the democrats who could afford to buy a Tesla has already done so and stuck with it - so Musk is now targeting the remaining half of the population ie the republicans. With deep partition ship in the American social consciousness , this may be the only path forward where to sell a product quickly the company has to align itself with one party or the other. It does not matter much if they change affiliations down the line - public memory is very short. From a moral standpoint it is really bad but then who cares?
- sergiomattei 4y ago
  > to sell a product quickly the company has to align itself with one party or the other Or just make a compelling product. Most of the things we use and buy on the daily aren’t partisan, they’re just good.
- peterashford 4y ago
  Oh, so it really is 4 dimensional chess, huh?
helf 4y ago
Still amazes me how many fanboys he has. The dude has successfully run some companies. Yes. He’s also a gigantic narcissist. Womanizer. Workaholic. Liar. Edgelord from hell. Blah blah But he does xyz things that I like and/or I wish I was rich!! sighs

59 points by redbell 4y ago

This is a symptom of the macro-level bifurcation of the economy and the things/ways we consume. Completely parallel economies that signal what side you're on won't be fiction for long.

noncoml 4y ago

I am thankful that society is rejecting sociopathic cult leaders like Trump and Musk. I was starting to lose hope. It still is a pity that everything has to be about politics. Tesla paved the way for the electric cars and was a net positive for society. I hope the stockholders see that Musk is more of a liability now, and kick him out.

claytongulick 4y ago
It's really strange how people allow their political ideology to color their thinking. Musk a "sociopathic cult leader?" He gets this label apparently because he believes in the marketplace of ideas. That's now equivalent to sociopathic tendencies? And because a lot of people agree with that freedom of expression (sort of the reason the U.S. was founded, and the thing that a lot of people have fought and died for) he's a cult leader? Roughly half or more of folks in this country tend to agree with him on a lot of things. That's a cult? They are all just dumb or something? From Locke to Sewell, they are brainwashed cultists too? Or is it maybe possible that reasonable people can disagree?
- noncoml 4y ago
  > It's really strange how people allow their political ideology to color their thinking I think that it is you that is trying to make this political. I referred to two specific people, one of which is supposed to be "not left, nor right". So why are you trying to paint it political? If anything I explicitly said in the post you replied that I find it sad that people are all about politics these days. Since you support freedom of ideas I ask you to respect my opinion about Musk, which has nothing to do with his claim of "marketplace of ideas" but a lot to do with all the other opinions he posts online. I would go into detail what are the things that he says that make him appear like a "sociopathic cult leader" to me, if you want. But by your message it sounded like you are sure that I don't like Musk because I don't support free speech. So, not sure it's worth continuing the discussion. I'll just leave this here for reference: https://www.psychmechanics.com/characteristics-of-cult-leaders/ https://www.psychmechanics.com/characteristics-of-cult-leade...
  - claytongulick 4y ago
    You called a former president of the United States and a successful serial entrepreneur sociopathic cult leaders. And yet somehow, you're redirecting to accuse me of making your very clearly biased post political. This is what I mean by how our ideology colors our thinking.
    - noncoml 4y ago
      Socrates is a philosopher. Socrates is a human. Hence all humans are philosophers? Can you explain why do you keep insisting that me calling Musk a sociopathic cult leader has anything to do with politics?

Ekaros 4y ago

I hope this will lead to brands that just shut up and sell stuff. And do not attempt to signal anything in anyway.

HPMOR 4y ago
I believe consumption patterns in general will reflect political leaning. For example a college kid probably travels to and from home requiring airline tickets, Uber, etc. Whereas a rural kid might have need of satellite wifi and diesel vehicles for long haul trips. These are inherently different consumption patterns that require brands to pick sides for their respective consumers. If anything the trend of companies choosing political sides will become exacerbated by consumers.
- hakfoo 4y ago
  That applies to an extent, but there's plenty of products that sell across the political spectrum. I might not buy a work truck, and my neighbour might not be interested in fiber internet, but we both buy hamburgers. I could see this break two ways: 1. Investors start handing companies their asses for throwing away potential customers. 2. There's just enough extra margin available in segmenting their customers that politically flaired brands end up being successful. Obviously that gets toxic fast if it works, but will it actually pan out? I can see brands trying to be "big fish in a small pond" by being the "anti-woke" (or "woke") choice, but will people really pay a premium for it? I could see choosing Lyft over Uber, or ordering a mainboard from B&H instead of Amazon, when the price is more or less the same, but I'm not sure I can justify paying 20% more.
badRNG 4y ago
It is often a bad bet in the long run to associate your brand with specific conservative causes. Conservatism, and right-reactionary thought, often exists as a critique or skepticism of the ideology and programs that progressives and leftists wish to enact. Sometimes the criticism is warranted, and this skepticism is an important part of civil discourse. Inevitably however, sometimes progressive causes will win and overcome their detractors. If you tied your brand to a critique of gay marriage, the Civil Rights Movement, or women's suffrage, your brand would face far more damage than being critical of rightist causes.

ericb 4y ago

I have so much trouble squaring the "genius" narrative with the "alienating the core constituency that buys electric vehicles by making my personal brand into a MAGA hat" reality. Isn't moving humanity to mars the ultimate in cautious, long-term thinking while burning your personal and company brand value the ultimate in reckless short term thinking? The apparent rationality and irrationality blows my mind.

Veedrac 4y ago
You're probably having trouble because neither Musk's narrative nor edge have come from being a cunning salesperson. This is “Tesla stock price is too high imo” Musk, robotaxi next year Musk, other person is a pedophile Musk, yell at legal authorities Musk. Musk's edge has come from tackling hard, technical problems, and doing so successfully, for long enough, on enticing enough problems, that people started to buy the dream. Contrast, leftist flamebait is just Musk being impolitic on Twitter, and an increasingly-hostile anti-left Musk is just what you get when the left runs campaigns specifically attacking him. It's not a smart business move because it's not a business move, merely a reflection of the increasing polarization of America.
- MrMan 4y ago
  You are dead wrong about a lot of things here. Musk may not seem like a salesman to you, but he is actually one of the best salesmen and marketers we have seen, and created the major brands which have enriched him basically entirely using media coverage of him and his companies, and massive social media reach using his personal twitter account. In my opinion the one thing he is truly good at is sales and marketing. Selling the dream, and a very good design team, is what made Tesla what it is. I have no comment on whether technical solutions requiring the coordination of hundreds and thousands of people can be credited to one non-technical person, nor the political stuff.
  - Veedrac 4y ago
    It's political to say it now, but Musk is technical. Here's some evidence to that effect[1]. I know of more accounts, but really, just watch the Starbase tour videos and make up your own mind. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/evidence_that_musk_is_the_chief_engineer_of_spacex/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/eviden...

legitster 4y ago

Whether intentionally or not, I think he instinctively has been trying to disassociate "his brand" from the rest of the green or progressive movements overall. The electric car industry suffered for decades under the NPR and kombucha crowd. But if there is one common thread to his success, it has been to completely ignore the existing identifiable market and make your own (Paypal, SpaceX, Tesla). Musk wanted bros and rednecks and meat-eating red-blooded Americans all alike to think a Tesla is cool. Actual environmentalists would follow suit regardless as a captive market - waste no effort on them. And I think he sees Twitter the same way. Twitter's core demographic is a captive group of left-leaning educated users. If he can successfully flip a switch to appeal to everyone else in America, and hold on to enough captive current users in the process, he will have successfully grown the pie. I don't actually know if this is Musk's blatant strategy or if he is "crazy like a fox". But Musk has engaged in conservative-leaning flame wars for several years at this point. However, he just recently admitted to casting his first vote for a Republican this election cycle. That means during all of those years he was saying flamboyant things and meeting with Trump etc, he was largely saying one thing and doing another. So I'm leaning towards the idea that he is a bit more coy than he lets on and sees political drama as a sort of business asset.

aeternum 4y ago
It would be quite amazing if this was all a ploy to actually gain a larger market for Tesla. During the pandemic, the techies had all the disposable income and were the key Tesla market. Now the pendulum has swung the other way and the energy sector and more traditional businesses have seen a resurgence. Makes sense to increase appeal to that more conservative-leaning demographic.
over_bridge 4y ago
There's definitely some merit to this view. It's much like how in a political primary all candidates pander to the extreme so that they win and then immediately ignore them and pivot to the other side to scoop up votes from the other party. If you are true left or right you are a captive audience of your respective center left or center right party. It's cynical and dishonest but it works. There's no reason to think that Musk isn't as single minded about his own goals as those parties are about winning. This is the best case for his behavior. Unless hydrogen takes off and captures the environmentalists, they have nowhere to go but EVs. Watch him pivot back fast if that does happen, and push further into the 'rolling coal' crowd until then. I still wish him success but I no longer like him. I doubt he cares.

Nomentatus 4y ago

"One Swallow Does Make a Summer, says Survey"

more_corn 4y ago

This is fantastic news! I never would have thought there’d be a day when conservatives could own the libs by buying an electric car.

goatlover 4y ago
Does it roll electric coal?
- dieselgate 4y ago
  Rolling “coal” with biodiesel or renewable diesel is still a thing..
throwayyy479087 4y ago
This is honestly a great thing for the planet
- godshatter 4y ago
  Not if all the libs drop it like a hot potato. It's a 50/50 split, more-or-less. We really, really, need to do something about this political polarization. I put it up there above climate change as an existential problem for the US.
  - harpiaharpyja 4y ago
    I don't think libs are going to just drop electric cars. They'll move to other brands.
  - erik_seaberg 4y ago
    Aren’t conservatives more likely to live in exurban or rural areas with enough private space for charging an EV overnight?
yummypaint 4y ago
I agree. Getting vanity truck engines off the roads is a fundamentally different problem than getting large truck engines off the roads in general. These decisions aren't made rationally for many people so attacking them with logic is bound to fail. If we can transition culture war conservatives from doing the wrong thing for the wrong reason to doing the right thing for the wrong reason, that would be progress.

clouddrover 4y ago

How much longer will Tesla tolerate Musk as CEO? How much work is Tesla getting out of him these days when he's wasting his time on Twitter and stage appearances? How is he helping Tesla when he's alienating existing and potential customers with his petty antics and rants? Musk seems determined to become more cost than benefit.

akomtu 4y ago

Tesla has always been a partisan brand, and the party loved it until Musk started mocking their quasi-religion.

glonq 4y ago
I don't think that's true, especially outside the US. I bought my Tesla because it's a really good bang-for-the-buck electric car. My political ideogies are not particularly aligned with Elon Musk's, but that doesn't really affect my purchasing decision. What do you mean about 'religion'?

lazyeye 4y ago

Note how it's only "partisan" when they are perceived to lean in one particular direction only. Despite multiple very close elections the other side is the "mainstream consensus" of course.

tene80i 4y ago
What examples of partisan leaning in the other direction would you say are being overlooked? Some other companies / CEOs?
- lazyeye 4y ago
  Have you been paying much attention to what Twitter has been doing for the last few years? Particularly leading up to the last election?
  - tene80i 4y ago
    Sure, but what do you think is being overlooked, or presented as mainstream opinion when it arguably isn’t?
    - lazyeye 4y ago
      I'm not going to start debating specifics. Clearly up until very recently Twitter has leaned left. I don't see how anyone with basic comprehension skills can dispute that.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - tene80i 4y ago
        Without specifics, this isn’t a matter of comprehension skills. Broad, evidence-free claims cannot be argued with.
        4y ago

la64710 4y ago

This is quite brilliant . I am sure most of the democrats who could afford to buy a Tesla has already done so and stuck with it - so Musk is now targeting the remaining half of the population ie the republicans. With deep partition ship in the American social consciousness , this may be the only path forward where to sell a product quickly the company has to align itself with one party or the other. It does not matter much if they change affiliations down the line - public memory is very short. From a moral standpoint it is really bad but then who cares?

sergiomattei 4y ago
> to sell a product quickly the company has to align itself with one party or the other Or just make a compelling product. Most of the things we use and buy on the daily aren’t partisan, they’re just good.
peterashford 4y ago
Oh, so it really is 4 dimensional chess, huh?

helf 4y ago

Still amazes me how many fanboys he has. The dude has successfully run some companies. Yes. He’s also a gigantic narcissist. Womanizer. Workaholic. Liar. Edgelord from hell. Blah blah But he does xyz things that I like and/or I wish I was rich!! sighs