7 ms·

The fact that this guy has not been arrested just goes to show how completely f*cked America is.

AlexandrB 4y ago
The question of jurisdiction is interesting. Technically FTX was not operating in the US or for US citizens but, as I understand, there were many workarounds. FTX US did operate in the US, but I'm not sure how fucked they are relative to the main FTX exchange. It's also notable that FTX customers (at least the "in-crypto-for-the-ideology" ones) and investors wanted this. They wanted a financial system that was out of the reach of the US legal system - none of them had a problem dealing with an exchange that was based in the Bahamas for legal reasons until the whole thing fell apart. So it's interesting to hear so many calls for SBF's arrest by US authorities.
- defterGoose 4y ago
  | FTX US did operate in the US, but I'm not sure how fucked they are relative to the main FTX exchange. I'm going to go out on an amputated limb here and say...right well fucked.
dandanua 4y ago
Not completely, but the "American dream" looks very differently today.
vitaflo 4y ago
It took the feds 3 years to indict Kenneth Lay for Enron. You’re going to be waiting a while. Feds get one shot at a case and they don’t tend to lose for a reason. By arresting him now he can force a speedy trial. Feds are going to gather every single ounce of evidence they can before they go after him.
- rubyist5eva 4y ago
  That seems optimistic but I hope so.
- notch656a 4y ago
  >You’re going to be waiting a while. He's been arrested. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/12/ftx-founder-sam-bankman-fried-arrested-in-the-bahamas-after-us-files-criminal-charges.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/12/ftx-founder-sam-bankman-frie...
whimsicalism 4y ago
Dude literally paid a substantial proportion of Bahamas GDP to the Bahamas government, my guess is they got some sort of deal in exchange for this.
- chollida1 4y ago
  > Dude literally paid a substantial proportion of Jamaican GDP to the Jamaican government, my guess is they got some sort of deal in exchange for this. Do you mean Bahamas? If so they you are very wrong about their GDP :)
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    Yes, oops! They transferred $500 million to Bahamas govt, which is ~5% of GDP. I would say that is a substantial portion.
gamblor956 4y ago
Once SBF gets arrested, the clock on trying him in court begins. The "clock" varies by jurisdiction; it can be a short as 30 days or as long as 6 months, and they have to gather all of the evidence they will be using before the trial begins.[1] Once the trial has concluded, he cannot be re-tried on the same or related charges even if new evidence comes to light. Or IOW: prosecutors get one shot at the apple. They're going to wait until they have a good case and then they will prosecute him, assuming he hasn't been offed by then, and he will spend many years in prison. [1] Defendants are usually asked to waive this deadline. For less serious charges, or for non-violent felonies where the defendant isn't planning to contest the charges, this is usually a good idea because prosecutors will agree to a better plea deal. For more serious and complex cases like this, it's never a good idea to waive the deadline. The defendant doesn't want to give the prosecution more time to prepare a case because the prosecutor won't agree to a better plea deal if they do. When defendants refuse to waive their right to a speedy trial, conviction rates are usually below 50% (from a standard rate of north of 80%) as the standard criminal investigation takes much longer than the speedy-trial window.
- notch656a 4y ago
  He can be imprisoned on one "sacrificial" offense for which they have probable cause but don't care much about.* Then reset the clock with a superseding indictment. * Note per below the sacrificial offense would be a Bahaman offense while the superseding offense would be in US jurisdiction.
  - gamblor956 4y ago
    That's not how it works, at all. A superseding indictment does not "reset" the clock. The speedy trial clock begins with the first indictment, regardless of whether there is a subsequent or superseding indictment. See e.g., U.S. v Black (2nd Cir. 2019), or US v. Young (11th Cir. 2008, available at https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-circuit/1425888.html https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-circuit/1425888.html). The Young opinion is a good primer on the history of the speedy trial case law. The following U.S. Circuits have ruled similarly to the 2nd and 11th Circuits on speedy trial rights and superseding indictments: D.C, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 8th, 9th.
rubyist5eva 4y ago
welp - that was fast, they just arrested him lol
ahahahahah 4y ago
Given that he's been arrested, I guess America is not that fucked?
- rubyist5eva 4y ago
  Yeah I'm definitely eating crow. Can't say I'm unhappy about it though.

The question of jurisdiction is interesting. Technically FTX was not operating in the US or for US citizens but, as I understand, there were many workarounds. FTX US did operate in the US, but I'm not sure how fucked they are relative to the main FTX exchange. It's also notable that FTX customers (at least the "in-crypto-for-the-ideology" ones) and investors wanted this. They wanted a financial system that was out of the reach of the US legal system - none of them had a problem dealing with an exchange that was based in the Bahamas for legal reasons until the whole thing fell apart. So it's interesting to hear so many calls for SBF's arrest by US authorities.

defterGoose 4y ago
| FTX US did operate in the US, but I'm not sure how fucked they are relative to the main FTX exchange. I'm going to go out on an amputated limb here and say...right well fucked.

dandanua 4y ago

Not completely, but the "American dream" looks very differently today.

vitaflo 4y ago

It took the feds 3 years to indict Kenneth Lay for Enron. You’re going to be waiting a while. Feds get one shot at a case and they don’t tend to lose for a reason. By arresting him now he can force a speedy trial. Feds are going to gather every single ounce of evidence they can before they go after him.

rubyist5eva 4y ago
That seems optimistic but I hope so.
notch656a 4y ago
>You’re going to be waiting a while. He's been arrested. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/12/ftx-founder-sam-bankman-fried-arrested-in-the-bahamas-after-us-files-criminal-charges.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/12/ftx-founder-sam-bankman-frie...

whimsicalism 4y ago

Dude literally paid a substantial proportion of Bahamas GDP to the Bahamas government, my guess is they got some sort of deal in exchange for this.

chollida1 4y ago
> Dude literally paid a substantial proportion of Jamaican GDP to the Jamaican government, my guess is they got some sort of deal in exchange for this. Do you mean Bahamas? If so they you are very wrong about their GDP :)
- whimsicalism 4y ago
  Yes, oops! They transferred $500 million to Bahamas govt, which is ~5% of GDP. I would say that is a substantial portion.

gamblor956 4y ago

Once SBF gets arrested, the clock on trying him in court begins. The "clock" varies by jurisdiction; it can be a short as 30 days or as long as 6 months, and they have to gather all of the evidence they will be using before the trial begins.[1] Once the trial has concluded, he cannot be re-tried on the same or related charges even if new evidence comes to light. Or IOW: prosecutors get one shot at the apple. They're going to wait until they have a good case and then they will prosecute him, assuming he hasn't been offed by then, and he will spend many years in prison. [1] Defendants are usually asked to waive this deadline. For less serious charges, or for non-violent felonies where the defendant isn't planning to contest the charges, this is usually a good idea because prosecutors will agree to a better plea deal. For more serious and complex cases like this, it's never a good idea to waive the deadline. The defendant doesn't want to give the prosecution more time to prepare a case because the prosecutor won't agree to a better plea deal if they do. When defendants refuse to waive their right to a speedy trial, conviction rates are usually below 50% (from a standard rate of north of 80%) as the standard criminal investigation takes much longer than the speedy-trial window.

notch656a 4y ago
He can be imprisoned on one "sacrificial" offense for which they have probable cause but don't care much about.* Then reset the clock with a superseding indictment. * Note per below the sacrificial offense would be a Bahaman offense while the superseding offense would be in US jurisdiction.
- gamblor956 4y ago
  That's not how it works, at all. A superseding indictment does not "reset" the clock. The speedy trial clock begins with the first indictment, regardless of whether there is a subsequent or superseding indictment. See e.g., U.S. v Black (2nd Cir. 2019), or US v. Young (11th Cir. 2008, available at https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-circuit/1425888.html https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-circuit/1425888.html). The Young opinion is a good primer on the history of the speedy trial case law. The following U.S. Circuits have ruled similarly to the 2nd and 11th Circuits on speedy trial rights and superseding indictments: D.C, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 8th, 9th.

rubyist5eva 4y ago

welp - that was fast, they just arrested him lol

ahahahahah 4y ago

Given that he's been arrested, I guess America is not that fucked?

rubyist5eva 4y ago
Yeah I'm definitely eating crow. Can't say I'm unhappy about it though.