4 ms·

SDRAM latency is definitely not keeping up with improvements in throughput: if you go back to the time of the PC100 SDRAM standard (late 90s?) it was not uncomm

SDRAM latency is definitely not keeping up with improvements in throughput: if you go back to the time of the PC100 SDRAM standard (late 90s?) it was not uncommon to see RAM with CAS latency of 2 clocks and overall timings compatible with a latency of around 20-25ns; now with DDR5-4800, CL 34 is standard and latencies have only come down to about 15ns. This despite the number of MT/s increasing 48-fold.

iamchp 4y ago
Computer architects use the term 'memory wall' to refer to this latency problem. CPU microarchitectures are constantly improved to improve IPC, Die technology helps increase CPU frequency, but memory access latency is not keeping up with the CPU improvements.
- NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
  Right - I think, at this point, that L1 cache latency is worse than main-memory latency on a 'per CPU clock' basis than it was in the late 1990s!
  - rbanffy 4y ago
    Makes sense for a larger cache to take longer to decode an address.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kstrauser 4y ago
I've had a devil of a time looking this up. Perhaps you'd know: Back in the Amiga days, 60ns SIMMs were common. Some CPU accelerator boards could run faster if you upgraded to 50ns SIMMs instead. What did those numbers refer to? Latency? Time to fetch a byte? Something else? I'd be interested in an apples-to-apples comparison of the old hardware with the new.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- colejohnson66 4y ago
  Those times referred to the speed of the actual ICs on the PCB. A “60 ns” SRAM IC takes up to 60 nanoseconds from the (input) address lines going stable to the (output) data lines going stable. If you sampled the data bus during those 60 nanoseconds, you might get incomplete data. Swapping for 50 ns modules means the ICs were verified to take less time for the data bus to be valid. It’s a bit like overclocking your memory nowadays. Basically, the 50 and 60 nanosecond parts might be the same silicon, but the 50 ns ones were validated to perform at that speed. Today, a 3200 MT/s DDR4 module doesn’t mean it won’t run at 3600 MT/s; just that it was only verified to run at the former. --- The big difference between the two memory formats, however, is that DDR is pipelined. In the old days, you would present an address on the bus, hold it, and then wait for the data to come back. Only after sampling the data could you request a new address. DDR, being pipelined, allows you to request an address, and, before the data comes back, request a new address. After a while, the data from the first address would come back, followed by the data from the second. That alone makes apples-to-apples comparisons hard.
  - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
    With original DRAM you had the row strobe, the column strobe and then you could read out your data. You then had to precharge the row again before doing another access. Page mode DRAM improved on this by allowing you to keep the row open and read multiple columns, but you had to wait until the read completed before presenting the next column address. Enhanced-data-out (EDO) DRAM extends this by allowing you to pipeline accesses with the row. So the ability to pipeline is much older than DDR. DDR SDRAM is an evolution on SDRAM, which is the first variety of DRAM that is actually clocked (and came after EDO); and the main innovation is transfer on both edges of the clock (falling as well as rising) - hence double-data-rate.
  - kstrauser 4y ago

iamchp 4y ago

Computer architects use the term 'memory wall' to refer to this latency problem. CPU microarchitectures are constantly improved to improve IPC, Die technology helps increase CPU frequency, but memory access latency is not keeping up with the CPU improvements.

NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
Right - I think, at this point, that L1 cache latency is worse than main-memory latency on a 'per CPU clock' basis than it was in the late 1990s!
- rbanffy 4y ago
  Makes sense for a larger cache to take longer to decode an address.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

kstrauser 4y ago

I've had a devil of a time looking this up. Perhaps you'd know: Back in the Amiga days, 60ns SIMMs were common. Some CPU accelerator boards could run faster if you upgraded to 50ns SIMMs instead. What did those numbers refer to? Latency? Time to fetch a byte? Something else? I'd be interested in an apples-to-apples comparison of the old hardware with the new.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
colejohnson66 4y ago
Those times referred to the speed of the actual ICs on the PCB. A “60 ns” SRAM IC takes up to 60 nanoseconds from the (input) address lines going stable to the (output) data lines going stable. If you sampled the data bus during those 60 nanoseconds, you might get incomplete data. Swapping for 50 ns modules means the ICs were verified to take less time for the data bus to be valid. It’s a bit like overclocking your memory nowadays. Basically, the 50 and 60 nanosecond parts might be the same silicon, but the 50 ns ones were validated to perform at that speed. Today, a 3200 MT/s DDR4 module doesn’t mean it won’t run at 3600 MT/s; just that it was only verified to run at the former. --- The big difference between the two memory formats, however, is that DDR is pipelined. In the old days, you would present an address on the bus, hold it, and then wait for the data to come back. Only after sampling the data could you request a new address. DDR, being pipelined, allows you to request an address, and, before the data comes back, request a new address. After a while, the data from the first address would come back, followed by the data from the second. That alone makes apples-to-apples comparisons hard.
- NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
  With original DRAM you had the row strobe, the column strobe and then you could read out your data. You then had to precharge the row again before doing another access. Page mode DRAM improved on this by allowing you to keep the row open and read multiple columns, but you had to wait until the read completed before presenting the next column address. Enhanced-data-out (EDO) DRAM extends this by allowing you to pipeline accesses with the row. So the ability to pipeline is much older than DDR. DDR SDRAM is an evolution on SDRAM, which is the first variety of DRAM that is actually clocked (and came after EDO); and the main innovation is transfer on both edges of the clock (falling as well as rising) - hence double-data-rate.
- kstrauser 4y ago