3 ms·

You've got some great points here about companies trying to bootstrap esports out of nothing. Ideally, the activeness of the community would determine what game

by nluken 4y ago

You've got some great points here about companies trying to bootstrap esports out of nothing. Ideally, the activeness of the community would determine what games can support professional play; bottom up, not top down. As for pacing and viewing experience: I'd whittle your list down even further if we're talking about the ideal esport. Most MOBAs are way too visually complex for non-players to understand what's going on. I always thought that fighting games made the most sense for a mass audience. Even if you don't have intimate knowledge of how a particular fighting game works, it's easy for anyone to understand what's going on and parse visually. You can see the entirety of the action instead of having to jump around from player to player. And some fighting games (looking at Smash Bros, Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter) are wildly popular already.

dagw 4y ago
Fighting games have to compete with watching actual people actually fighting. Sure the UFC has less backflips and fireballs, but no Street fighter tournament will be able give a fight fan the same visceral excitement as watching an actual fight. Much in the same way that very few people who enjoy watching football (any kind) enjoy watching eSport football.
- nluken 4y ago
  True, but it never really seemed to me like the two were competing with each other, except maybe in the case of something intentionally gory like Mortal Kombat. The detachment from physical injury makes it feel less like a fight and more like a non-combat sport. Could just be my bias showing since I've never liked UFC.
mjr00 4y ago
> Ideally, the activeness of the community would determine what games can support professional play; bottom up, not top down. Yep and this is how it's happened for the most successful esports. Brood War was turned into a competitive game by KeSPA with minimal support from Blizzard (and active interference later on). EVO was self-organized and had minimal outside support for a long while. Even League, which was supported by Riot from the start, had a very bootstrapped, labor-of-love feel to it, probably reflecting the actual small indie company Riot was at the start; the season 1 championships are lovingly referenced as having taken place in Phreak's basement, and the season 2 championships were an absolute logistical mess. The huge cash investment and sponsorships didn't come until way later. > Most MOBAs are way too visually complex for non-players to understand what's going on. Definitely, especially if you haven't played the games and know what items or abilities do. But at least as a spectator you have a full visual of the playing field and largely see the same thing the players see.
- Macha 4y ago
  Yeah, some of the more recent attempts (especially out of blizzard, ironically), come out of companies going "Hey, the MBA/NFL is super financially successful, we could be the MBA/NFL if this goes well, and since we have ultimate control of the game, we can even take a larger share than the central orgs for those sports", but without the grassroots support (even the NFL took decades to become large), it's only sustainable while they pour money in.

by nluken 4y ago

dagw 4y ago

Fighting games have to compete with watching actual people actually fighting. Sure the UFC has less backflips and fireballs, but no Street fighter tournament will be able give a fight fan the same visceral excitement as watching an actual fight. Much in the same way that very few people who enjoy watching football (any kind) enjoy watching eSport football.

nluken 4y ago
True, but it never really seemed to me like the two were competing with each other, except maybe in the case of something intentionally gory like Mortal Kombat. The detachment from physical injury makes it feel less like a fight and more like a non-combat sport. Could just be my bias showing since I've never liked UFC.

mjr00 4y ago

> Ideally, the activeness of the community would determine what games can support professional play; bottom up, not top down. Yep and this is how it's happened for the most successful esports. Brood War was turned into a competitive game by KeSPA with minimal support from Blizzard (and active interference later on). EVO was self-organized and had minimal outside support for a long while. Even League, which was supported by Riot from the start, had a very bootstrapped, labor-of-love feel to it, probably reflecting the actual small indie company Riot was at the start; the season 1 championships are lovingly referenced as having taken place in Phreak's basement, and the season 2 championships were an absolute logistical mess. The huge cash investment and sponsorships didn't come until way later. > Most MOBAs are way too visually complex for non-players to understand what's going on. Definitely, especially if you haven't played the games and know what items or abilities do. But at least as a spectator you have a full visual of the playing field and largely see the same thing the players see.

Macha 4y ago
Yeah, some of the more recent attempts (especially out of blizzard, ironically), come out of companies going "Hey, the MBA/NFL is super financially successful, we could be the MBA/NFL if this goes well, and since we have ultimate control of the game, we can even take a larger share than the central orgs for those sports", but without the grassroots support (even the NFL took decades to become large), it's only sustainable while they pour money in.