4 ms·

Starcraft II was really the only esport I ever cared about or watched. I think it is also widely considered the first esport. Make of that what you will.

fourseventy 4y ago
SC2 was absolutely not the first esport. Quake3, counterstrike and Starcraft 1 were all big (relatively) esports back in the day with professional players and teams.
endominus 4y ago
Who considers Starcraft II, of all games, the first esport? Was it ever even considered as competitive as the original Starcraft?
- htag 4y ago
  Yeah, Starcraft II is as competitive or more than the original Starcraft. The introduction of the ladder means more players play SCII competitively, and the pro scene is just as good, if not better. Here's the commentary for the final match of the last in person tournament in SC2 [0]. Starcraft II did a lot of things to make controlling the game easier (Reassignable hotkeys, being able to select larger armies, screen position hotkeys). This made it easier for new players to get into the game, but the pro players were just able to find new ways to use their precious attention and keyboard presses and the skill ceiling remains as high as brood war. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WbXgaLr_eA&list=PLoBxKk9n0UWc8-5eHtZXvg4Y5wRwFavnm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WbXgaLr_eA&list=PLoBxKk9n0U...
- rollcat 4y ago
  I think OP confused the role / status of 1 & 2; SC1 was almost immediately huge in Korea, had its own TV channel(s), kids would play nothing else in the Internet cafes, etc. Casual LAN was also huge: you needed only one CD key to host a local game with up to 8 players (although TCP/IP was only added a bit later, with a patch). Even if you disagree that SC1 created esports, it is definitely the one game that drove esports' early popularity like no other game could. Then in 2010 Blizzard released SC2, and in an effort to promote it, tried to undermine SC1's success, since it saw its continued popularity as SC2's competition. SC2 was never as popular, other (often more casual) e-sports started getting popular... and a couple of scandals among very high-profile players (match fixing) drove the nail into the coffin. Both SC1&2 scenes are still remarkably healthy (for a 24&12 year old game, respectively), there are premier tournaments with cash prizes, games continue receiving balance tweaks (although SC1 mostly through map design), etc. I play competitive SC2 casually and I can usually find a 1v1 match in less than 10 seconds (or about 1min for team games). It's never too late to get into it ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft_in_esports https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft_in_esports
  - Macha 4y ago
    I think it's fair to say SC1 did introduce esports to Korea, but it was SC2 that introduced them to the west in a big way. And certainly in the west SC2 was larger than BW, probably even once you include the korean brood war scene. I think you're diminishing SC2 a bit _too_ much in your effort to point out the contribution of SC1.
nemo44x 4y ago
Well, Brood Wars had a huge esports following too. It still does have a niche following. SC is such a perfect game for esports but it's probably just too complex for many people. You really have to understand the nuance of the game for it to be enjoyable to watch. But if you do, it's dramatic.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  SC does have some issues. One is huge variance in map length. Either it is couple of minutes or maybe 10 of some cheese tactic or then half an hour hour long grind. Which makes reliable format rather hard to implement.
FartyMcFarter 4y ago
The first Starcraft was already huge at least in Korea, and Doom / Quake were pretty big online in the 90s including some professional events: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esports#Growth_and_online_video_games_(1990%E2%80%931999) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esports#Growth_and_online_vide...
htag 4y ago
I participated in several online leagues and in person tournaments for Counter-Strike and Quake III before Starcraft II was released. The Evo Moment 36 [0], still one of the most iconic fighting games match, happened in 2004, six years before Starcraft II's release. Starcraft Brood War and Warcraft III both had tournaments and world rankings. There's been a culture of in person tournaments at arcades and lans for as long as there's been arcades and lan ports. If these aren't esports, where are you drawing the line to say Starcraft II was the first? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Moment_37 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Moment_37
Kranar 4y ago
Definitely not the first eSport. People played Warcraft 3 competitively, not to mention you also had arcade game tournaments like Street Fighter 2 that go back to the 1990s.

fourseventy 4y ago

SC2 was absolutely not the first esport. Quake3, counterstrike and Starcraft 1 were all big (relatively) esports back in the day with professional players and teams.

endominus 4y ago

Who considers Starcraft II, of all games, the first esport? Was it ever even considered as competitive as the original Starcraft?

htag 4y ago
Yeah, Starcraft II is as competitive or more than the original Starcraft. The introduction of the ladder means more players play SCII competitively, and the pro scene is just as good, if not better. Here's the commentary for the final match of the last in person tournament in SC2 [0]. Starcraft II did a lot of things to make controlling the game easier (Reassignable hotkeys, being able to select larger armies, screen position hotkeys). This made it easier for new players to get into the game, but the pro players were just able to find new ways to use their precious attention and keyboard presses and the skill ceiling remains as high as brood war. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WbXgaLr_eA&list=PLoBxKk9n0UWc8-5eHtZXvg4Y5wRwFavnm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WbXgaLr_eA&list=PLoBxKk9n0U...
rollcat 4y ago
I think OP confused the role / status of 1 & 2; SC1 was almost immediately huge in Korea, had its own TV channel(s), kids would play nothing else in the Internet cafes, etc. Casual LAN was also huge: you needed only one CD key to host a local game with up to 8 players (although TCP/IP was only added a bit later, with a patch). Even if you disagree that SC1 created esports, it is definitely the one game that drove esports' early popularity like no other game could. Then in 2010 Blizzard released SC2, and in an effort to promote it, tried to undermine SC1's success, since it saw its continued popularity as SC2's competition. SC2 was never as popular, other (often more casual) e-sports started getting popular... and a couple of scandals among very high-profile players (match fixing) drove the nail into the coffin. Both SC1&2 scenes are still remarkably healthy (for a 24&12 year old game, respectively), there are premier tournaments with cash prizes, games continue receiving balance tweaks (although SC1 mostly through map design), etc. I play competitive SC2 casually and I can usually find a 1v1 match in less than 10 seconds (or about 1min for team games). It's never too late to get into it ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft_in_esports https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft_in_esports
- Macha 4y ago
  I think it's fair to say SC1 did introduce esports to Korea, but it was SC2 that introduced them to the west in a big way. And certainly in the west SC2 was larger than BW, probably even once you include the korean brood war scene. I think you're diminishing SC2 a bit _too_ much in your effort to point out the contribution of SC1.

nemo44x 4y ago

Well, Brood Wars had a huge esports following too. It still does have a niche following. SC is such a perfect game for esports but it's probably just too complex for many people. You really have to understand the nuance of the game for it to be enjoyable to watch. But if you do, it's dramatic.

Ekaros 4y ago
SC does have some issues. One is huge variance in map length. Either it is couple of minutes or maybe 10 of some cheese tactic or then half an hour hour long grind. Which makes reliable format rather hard to implement.

FartyMcFarter 4y ago

The first Starcraft was already huge at least in Korea, and Doom / Quake were pretty big online in the 90s including some professional events: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esports#Growth_and_online_video_games_(1990%E2%80%931999) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esports#Growth_and_online_vide...

htag 4y ago

I participated in several online leagues and in person tournaments for Counter-Strike and Quake III before Starcraft II was released. The Evo Moment 36 [0], still one of the most iconic fighting games match, happened in 2004, six years before Starcraft II's release. Starcraft Brood War and Warcraft III both had tournaments and world rankings. There's been a culture of in person tournaments at arcades and lans for as long as there's been arcades and lan ports. If these aren't esports, where are you drawing the line to say Starcraft II was the first? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Moment_37 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Moment_37

Kranar 4y ago

Definitely not the first eSport. People played Warcraft 3 competitively, not to mention you also had arcade game tournaments like Street Fighter 2 that go back to the 1990s.