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Having TV blasted from space, GPS to know to turn at this intersection, and pictures of every roof on the planet is useful. None of those technologies could hav

Having TV blasted from space, GPS to know to turn at this intersection, and pictures of every roof on the planet is useful. None of those technologies could have happened if we didn't send people in tin cans first. The moon is an interesting destination for its Helium-3. We will run out at some point on Earth (Helium literally floats away), and going to the Moon for this resource could very well be our first extra-terrestrial mining operation.

bnralt 4y ago
> Having TV blasted from space, GPS to know to turn at this intersection, and pictures of every roof on the planet is useful. None of those technologies could have happened if we didn't send people in tin cans first. The first geopositioning satellite[1], first satellite that broadcast of a human voice from space[2], and the first photos taken from orbit[3] all predate the first human in space[4]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transit_(satellite) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transit_(satellite) [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCORE_(satellite) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCORE_(satellite) [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explorer_6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explorer_6 [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vostok_1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vostok_1
eesmith 4y ago
How do you make your conclusion? Telstar 1 started blasting TV from space in 1962. I don't know how that required Gargarin or Shepard to be in their tin cans first. Also, we sent up SCORE in 1958, and famously Arthur C. Clarke wrote about using satellites for telecommunications in 1945. TIROS, the US's first weather satellite, preceded Gargarin. KH-1, the US's first spy satellite, meant for photographic surveillance of the Soviet Union, was even earlier. These certainly didn't require humans in tin cans first.
pfdietz 4y ago
Lunar mining of 3He is a huge canard. It likely requires more energy to extract it from regolith than it returns from fusion (10 ppb is not much!) 3He can be made by DD fusion (which either produces 3He, or produces T which can be allowed to decay to 3He; neutrons from DD fusion can also be used to make tritium which can also be allowed to decay to 3He.) This is Helion's plan, with the system operated in a mode that suppresses DT fusion.
- Throwawayaerlei 4y ago
  See https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/Jupiter_Energy_Fleet https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/Jupiter_Energy_Fleet from the late 1970s; people have been thinking about this problem for a long time. This SF TV series cheated with a new physics which allowed compact nuclear fusion reactors minus the ability to do anything with neutrons. We still don't have a good path to them for basic electrical power generation, seeing as how much we're still struggling with theoretical break even DT fusion, with the LLNL experiment per something I just read not counting the power input into the lasers.
  - pfdietz 4y ago
    I don't look at fictional sources for evidence about reality.
    - Throwawayaerlei 4y ago
      So fiction showing people were thinking about X at such and so a time not evidence people were thinking about X at such and so a time??? All the "get to the moon" or beyond SF, which per Robert Heinlein was an explicit goal of his juveniles, to teach the attitudes and what you needed to learn to to get into space, which he was later told actually worked for a number of Apollo project people was ... what?? Can't make fusion reactors that interesting and the SF series never tried except when they didn't get a chance to shut down properly and went boom (actually a very beginning plot point), but I'm glad for all the fiction creators who inspired me into a STEM career when I was young.
      - eesmith 4y ago
        I believe pfdietz's point is there's no need to go to the Moon (or Jupiter?!) to extract 3He when sufficient 3He can be generated on Earth, at lower cost, and be energy positive. Your digression seems irrelevant to that point. We didn't use Heinlein stories as a source of evidence about reality. We didn't use thorium rockets to get to the Moon. Nor did we develop monoatomic hydrogen ("Single-H") fuel. Similarly, we don't use Gundam stories. Also, Project Daedalus' proposal to mine the Jupiter atmosphere for 3He for fusion predates the first Gundam episode, and is likely what influenced the series. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Daedalus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Daedalus .

bnralt 4y ago

> Having TV blasted from space, GPS to know to turn at this intersection, and pictures of every roof on the planet is useful. None of those technologies could have happened if we didn't send people in tin cans first. The first geopositioning satellite[1], first satellite that broadcast of a human voice from space[2], and the first photos taken from orbit[3] all predate the first human in space[4]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transit_(satellite) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transit_(satellite) [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCORE_(satellite) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCORE_(satellite) [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explorer_6 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explorer_6 [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vostok_1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vostok_1

eesmith 4y ago

How do you make your conclusion? Telstar 1 started blasting TV from space in 1962. I don't know how that required Gargarin or Shepard to be in their tin cans first. Also, we sent up SCORE in 1958, and famously Arthur C. Clarke wrote about using satellites for telecommunications in 1945. TIROS, the US's first weather satellite, preceded Gargarin. KH-1, the US's first spy satellite, meant for photographic surveillance of the Soviet Union, was even earlier. These certainly didn't require humans in tin cans first.

pfdietz 4y ago

Lunar mining of 3He is a huge canard. It likely requires more energy to extract it from regolith than it returns from fusion (10 ppb is not much!) 3He can be made by DD fusion (which either produces 3He, or produces T which can be allowed to decay to 3He; neutrons from DD fusion can also be used to make tritium which can also be allowed to decay to 3He.) This is Helion's plan, with the system operated in a mode that suppresses DT fusion.

Throwawayaerlei 4y ago
See https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/Jupiter_Energy_Fleet https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/Jupiter_Energy_Fleet from the late 1970s; people have been thinking about this problem for a long time. This SF TV series cheated with a new physics which allowed compact nuclear fusion reactors minus the ability to do anything with neutrons. We still don't have a good path to them for basic electrical power generation, seeing as how much we're still struggling with theoretical break even DT fusion, with the LLNL experiment per something I just read not counting the power input into the lasers.
- pfdietz 4y ago
  I don't look at fictional sources for evidence about reality.
  - Throwawayaerlei 4y ago
    So fiction showing people were thinking about X at such and so a time not evidence people were thinking about X at such and so a time??? All the "get to the moon" or beyond SF, which per Robert Heinlein was an explicit goal of his juveniles, to teach the attitudes and what you needed to learn to to get into space, which he was later told actually worked for a number of Apollo project people was ... what?? Can't make fusion reactors that interesting and the SF series never tried except when they didn't get a chance to shut down properly and went boom (actually a very beginning plot point), but I'm glad for all the fiction creators who inspired me into a STEM career when I was young.
    - eesmith 4y ago
      I believe pfdietz's point is there's no need to go to the Moon (or Jupiter?!) to extract 3He when sufficient 3He can be generated on Earth, at lower cost, and be energy positive. Your digression seems irrelevant to that point. We didn't use Heinlein stories as a source of evidence about reality. We didn't use thorium rockets to get to the Moon. Nor did we develop monoatomic hydrogen ("Single-H") fuel. Similarly, we don't use Gundam stories. Also, Project Daedalus' proposal to mine the Jupiter atmosphere for 3He for fusion predates the first Gundam episode, and is likely what influenced the series. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Daedalus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Daedalus .