4 ms·

Even if all the exchanges go down, I would be surprised if BTC completely crashed. It's still highly useful for buying illegal drugs, and for money laundering.

by 65 4y ago

Even if all the exchanges go down, I would be surprised if BTC completely crashed. It's still highly useful for buying illegal drugs, and for money laundering. If you notice, whenever there are crypto crashes, the BTC value after everything stabilizes is usually higher than it was before the mania. I would guess this has to do with BTC being increasingly useful for illegal activities.

willnonya 4y ago
This is the big failing of BTC. It's nearly useless as a daily currency and precieved as something only criminals use.
rvz 4y ago
> It's still highly useful for buying illegal drugs, and for money laundering. Yeah, 'highly useful' enough for the authorities and for everyone to see all the transactions on a public ledger to track down who paid for what and to identify anyone who attempts to convert the BTC to fiat as soon as it hits the exchange. Totally useful for criminals and hackers. /s Especially when they are getting caught all the time by the authorities when they use Bitcoin.
- lazide 4y ago
  That is one of the weirdest blind spots here. It has an immutable transaction log showing everything that ever happened. It’s a fundamental part of the currency/protocol. That means if your wallet gets seized or compromised, someone can see every transaction you ever did, every counterparty, and every transaction each of those counter parties every did. That’s a big yikes if you’re in a criminal enterprise! There are ways now to make it less obvious/transparent who is who, but it still exposes a massive treasure trove of info to law enforcement once they start looking, that just doesn’t exist with cash unless someone goes through a ton of effort to create it. Hell, if I was some 3 letter agency, I’d want as many criminals as possible to use Bitcoin!
  - acdha 4y ago
    I've also found it weird how often the response has been something along the lines of “you should use a mixer”, as if that technology is proven to be robust or apparent awareness that it's not a great idea to publicly give law enforcement evidence that you're trying to hide something, especially when your activity might attract scrutiny because you're providing cover to a high-priority crime. I would not want to be in court pleading for leniency on the grounds that you didn't know or intend that your transaction activity would help North Korea.
- nuclx 4y ago
  > to track down who paid for what The 'for what' part actually isn't that easy, meaning LE at least needs additional data points. And then there is Monero.
  - rvz 4y ago
    > And then there is Monero. OK, but the GP's claim was about Bitcoin, not Monero.
- HDThoreaun 4y ago
  tumbling is easy enough and makes it impossible to link fiat identity to bitcoin identity.
  - rvz 4y ago
    And easy enough for exchanges to detect if the funds went through a mixer or tumbler and can block or lock the account that has received the tainted funds and will require you to identify yourself via KYC/AML checks and with the authorities. So no. Using exchanges to swap fiat to crypto especially with large amounts of money is not anonymous or easy and it is certainly possible to demix and untumble the transaction trail with tools like Chainalysis. Mixers and tumblers only makes it harder to trace, but never impossible.
    - HDThoreaun 4y ago
      All coins have gone through a tumbler at some point. I don't see how that proves anything. > certainly possible to demix and untumble the transaction trail with tools like Chainalysis. This is just wrong
      - rvz 4y ago
        > All coins have gone through a tumbler at some point. I don't see how that proves anything. Even if that is the case, exchanges will still require your identity for AML regulations if you try to turn the tainted funds into fiat in [0] and [1], especially for large amounts. Bitcoin is not anonymous and is completely traceable. The same is true for tumblers. > This is just wrong Your reply is not a refutation, but a denial without counter evidence. [0] https://twitter.com/bittlecat/status/1207621591820951552 https://twitter.com/bittlecat/status/1207621591820951552 [1] https://twitter.com/McHodled/status/1222172084610027523 https://twitter.com/McHodled/status/1222172084610027523
rafale 4y ago
Most money laundering and criminal enterprises are conducted in fiat. Bitcoin is not anonymous.
- 65 4y ago
  Illegal dark web markets use BTC as currency. The BTC entering and exiting these markets is highly tumbled, making it very hard to track.
  - samhuk 4y ago
    FYI dark markets often use XMR (monero) now, due to it's true anonymity. That's why a few governments around the world are one-by-one banning it's sale (see Kraken and the UK government monero situation in september 2021). Bitcoin was figured out by most big governments quite a few years ago, and dark markets are quite quickly moving on to XMR.

by 65 4y ago

willnonya 4y ago

This is the big failing of BTC. It's nearly useless as a daily currency and precieved as something only criminals use.

rvz 4y ago

> It's still highly useful for buying illegal drugs, and for money laundering. Yeah, 'highly useful' enough for the authorities and for everyone to see all the transactions on a public ledger to track down who paid for what and to identify anyone who attempts to convert the BTC to fiat as soon as it hits the exchange. Totally useful for criminals and hackers. /s Especially when they are getting caught all the time by the authorities when they use Bitcoin.

lazide 4y ago
That is one of the weirdest blind spots here. It has an immutable transaction log showing everything that ever happened. It’s a fundamental part of the currency/protocol. That means if your wallet gets seized or compromised, someone can see every transaction you ever did, every counterparty, and every transaction each of those counter parties every did. That’s a big yikes if you’re in a criminal enterprise! There are ways now to make it less obvious/transparent who is who, but it still exposes a massive treasure trove of info to law enforcement once they start looking, that just doesn’t exist with cash unless someone goes through a ton of effort to create it. Hell, if I was some 3 letter agency, I’d want as many criminals as possible to use Bitcoin!
- acdha 4y ago
  I've also found it weird how often the response has been something along the lines of “you should use a mixer”, as if that technology is proven to be robust or apparent awareness that it's not a great idea to publicly give law enforcement evidence that you're trying to hide something, especially when your activity might attract scrutiny because you're providing cover to a high-priority crime. I would not want to be in court pleading for leniency on the grounds that you didn't know or intend that your transaction activity would help North Korea.
nuclx 4y ago
> to track down who paid for what The 'for what' part actually isn't that easy, meaning LE at least needs additional data points. And then there is Monero.
- rvz 4y ago
  > And then there is Monero. OK, but the GP's claim was about Bitcoin, not Monero.
HDThoreaun 4y ago
tumbling is easy enough and makes it impossible to link fiat identity to bitcoin identity.
- rvz 4y ago
  And easy enough for exchanges to detect if the funds went through a mixer or tumbler and can block or lock the account that has received the tainted funds and will require you to identify yourself via KYC/AML checks and with the authorities. So no. Using exchanges to swap fiat to crypto especially with large amounts of money is not anonymous or easy and it is certainly possible to demix and untumble the transaction trail with tools like Chainalysis. Mixers and tumblers only makes it harder to trace, but never impossible.
  - HDThoreaun 4y ago
    All coins have gone through a tumbler at some point. I don't see how that proves anything. > certainly possible to demix and untumble the transaction trail with tools like Chainalysis. This is just wrong
    - rvz 4y ago
      > All coins have gone through a tumbler at some point. I don't see how that proves anything. Even if that is the case, exchanges will still require your identity for AML regulations if you try to turn the tainted funds into fiat in [0] and [1], especially for large amounts. Bitcoin is not anonymous and is completely traceable. The same is true for tumblers. > This is just wrong Your reply is not a refutation, but a denial without counter evidence. [0] https://twitter.com/bittlecat/status/1207621591820951552 https://twitter.com/bittlecat/status/1207621591820951552 [1] https://twitter.com/McHodled/status/1222172084610027523 https://twitter.com/McHodled/status/1222172084610027523

rafale 4y ago

Most money laundering and criminal enterprises are conducted in fiat. Bitcoin is not anonymous.

65 4y ago
Illegal dark web markets use BTC as currency. The BTC entering and exiting these markets is highly tumbled, making it very hard to track.
- samhuk 4y ago
  FYI dark markets often use XMR (monero) now, due to it's true anonymity. That's why a few governments around the world are one-by-one banning it's sale (see Kraken and the UK government monero situation in september 2021). Bitcoin was figured out by most big governments quite a few years ago, and dark markets are quite quickly moving on to XMR.