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Another famous bitcoin exchange, BitMEX, was also investigated for AML/KYC violations and the owners were arrested. One (Arthur) got 6 months of house arrest. T

by 323 4y ago

Another famous bitcoin exchange, BitMEX, was also investigated for AML/KYC violations and the owners were arrested. One (Arthur) got 6 months of house arrest. There were no other allegations (no financial fraud). > Among Binance's arguments: A criminal prosecution would wreak havoc on a crypto market already in a prolonged downturn. The famous "Too Big To Jail" argument. Worked for US banks. Even the US General Attorney agreed with this view: > Attorney General Eric Holder, the top U.S. law-enforcement official, finally admitted this week that bank executives truly are above the law and may commit crimes with virtual impunity. > Appearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee, Holder acknowledged under questioning by Republican Chuck Grassley of Iowa, the ranking member, that the megabanks are too big to jail. “I am concerned that the size of some of these institutions becomes so large that it does become difficult for us to prosecute them,” https://www.marketwatch.com/story/holder-admits-mega-banks-are-too-big-to-jail-2013-03-07 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/holder-admits-mega-banks-a...

simple-thoughts 4y ago
These are generally (although not always) victimless crimes. I don’t know the specifics of that case or the severity of it.
- 323 4y ago
  There could be second order victims. Bank accepts drug money breaking AML and you say it is "victimless crime", but a lot of people are dead because of drug usage or drug wars. In our case, crypto exchanges not doing AML can facilitate crypto hacking or ransomware.
  - simple-thoughts 4y ago
    Every grocery store creates second order victims by feeding criminals.
  - lazide 4y ago
    The beauty of that argument of course is that no causal links need to be proven, and no agency or ownership of their actions needs to occur for the ‘victims’? That’s like saying the copper miners are somehow responsible for war deaths because copper is an essential component of ammunition, and if they just figured that out and didn’t sell or allow their products to be sold to ammunition manufacturers, we’d have world peace.
- acdha 4y ago
  Money laundering is not victimless unless you can prove that none of the people using the service are using it to hide a crime with a victim. We know that's not the case for cryptocurrencies because they caused the ransomware industry to boom by making it easy to get real money from the victims — if they had to use the traditional banking system there are multiple chokepoints which made it much harder to get and keep significant sums that way.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    Breathing air is not a victimless crime unless you can prove that none of the people breathing the air are using the oxygen to help their bodies harm a victim. > if they had to use the traditional banking system there are multiple chokepoints which made it much harder to get and keep significant sums that way And no one at all would be able to sneak money through banking system if the government just executed anyone using a bank!
    - acdha 4y ago
      > In the same sense that breathing air is not a victimless crime unless you can prove that none of the people breathing the air are using the oxygen to help their bodies harm a victim. No, in the sense that when you are telling people to leave an existing process which has safeguards you are then taking on the responsibility for not causing a regression in the level of protection. Breathing air isn’t a good comparison because it doesn’t have the primary purpose of evading oversight. More appropriate comparisons do: cash, wire transfers, store credit, etc. all have restrictions to curtail criminal activity because we know that it is otherwise inevitable. Unless you can show that all use of cryptocurrency is benign we have to assume that it will follow every other financial system in human history and be used for a mix of purposes, and thus require the same mitigations.
      - notch656a 4y ago
        > Unless you can show that all use of cryptocurrency is benig So prove you're innocent. Yeah no thanks. I hope crypto finds a way to totally squash warrantless search of your documents (AKA KYC) to engage in finance.

by 323 4y ago

simple-thoughts 4y ago

These are generally (although not always) victimless crimes. I don’t know the specifics of that case or the severity of it.

323 4y ago
There could be second order victims. Bank accepts drug money breaking AML and you say it is "victimless crime", but a lot of people are dead because of drug usage or drug wars. In our case, crypto exchanges not doing AML can facilitate crypto hacking or ransomware.
- simple-thoughts 4y ago
  Every grocery store creates second order victims by feeding criminals.
- lazide 4y ago
  The beauty of that argument of course is that no causal links need to be proven, and no agency or ownership of their actions needs to occur for the ‘victims’? That’s like saying the copper miners are somehow responsible for war deaths because copper is an essential component of ammunition, and if they just figured that out and didn’t sell or allow their products to be sold to ammunition manufacturers, we’d have world peace.
acdha 4y ago
Money laundering is not victimless unless you can prove that none of the people using the service are using it to hide a crime with a victim. We know that's not the case for cryptocurrencies because they caused the ransomware industry to boom by making it easy to get real money from the victims — if they had to use the traditional banking system there are multiple chokepoints which made it much harder to get and keep significant sums that way.
- notch656a 4y ago
  Breathing air is not a victimless crime unless you can prove that none of the people breathing the air are using the oxygen to help their bodies harm a victim. > if they had to use the traditional banking system there are multiple chokepoints which made it much harder to get and keep significant sums that way And no one at all would be able to sneak money through banking system if the government just executed anyone using a bank!
  - acdha 4y ago
    > In the same sense that breathing air is not a victimless crime unless you can prove that none of the people breathing the air are using the oxygen to help their bodies harm a victim. No, in the sense that when you are telling people to leave an existing process which has safeguards you are then taking on the responsibility for not causing a regression in the level of protection. Breathing air isn’t a good comparison because it doesn’t have the primary purpose of evading oversight. More appropriate comparisons do: cash, wire transfers, store credit, etc. all have restrictions to curtail criminal activity because we know that it is otherwise inevitable. Unless you can show that all use of cryptocurrency is benign we have to assume that it will follow every other financial system in human history and be used for a mix of purposes, and thus require the same mitigations.
    - notch656a 4y ago
      > Unless you can show that all use of cryptocurrency is benig So prove you're innocent. Yeah no thanks. I hope crypto finds a way to totally squash warrantless search of your documents (AKA KYC) to engage in finance.