5 ms·

> In fact, reading some of the comments, I'm quite surprised people still believe there are inherent benefits to dark mode. There's not really much research sup

by IncRnd 4y ago

> In fact, reading some of the comments, I'm quite surprised people still believe there are inherent benefits to dark mode. There's not really much research supporting it. That's actually kind of ridiculous. I don't need to read other's research about dark mode to know how it lessens eye-strain. I have performed the experiment myself with my own eyes.

verinus 4y ago
err well- anecdotal evidence may be a good basis for a theory that could be validated using an experiment, but it does not suffice to be calling somebody elses' argument ridiculous...
- IncRnd 4y ago
  My comment does not mention anecdotal evidence but a person using their eyes to perform an experiment. That is clearly not anecdotal. It is ridiculous for people with eyes to not use their own eyes except to read studies as to whether their own eyes prefer light or dark. That should be obvious.
  - BossingAround 4y ago
    > My comment does not mention anecdotal evidence but a person using their eyes to perform an experiment. That is clearly not anecdotal. It is clearly anecdotal [1] at the very least to everyone else that reads your comment. It is also clearly insufficient to draw any scientifically valid conclusions. [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anecdotal%20evidence https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anecdotal%20evide...
    - IncRnd 4y ago
      > It is clearly anecdotal [1] at the very least to everyone else that reads your comment. It is also clearly insufficient to draw any scientifically valid conclusions. You are simply repeating something enough that you believe it to be true. You are misinformed about the meaning of the word anecdotal [1] and appear to be playing word games between "anecdotal", "anecdotal evidence", and a misunderstanding of what I wrote. > It is also clearly insufficient to draw any scientifically valid conclusions. What is the "it" in your comment? An experiment that someone performs is not anecdotal. [2] [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anecdotal https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anecdotal [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence
      - boomboomsubban 4y ago
        Your own link starts with "Anecdotal evidence is evidence based only on personal observation." Even if you actually performed some experiment on yourself, unless you had some outside method of calculating eye strain it would still be anecdotal evidence.
    - jaharios 4y ago
      Do you put your hand over fire or you need a study to confirm that fire will burn you?
      - BeetleB 4y ago
        That a hand over fire will burn you is not a subject of dispute. Everyone who attempts it knows it. That dark mode is better for the eyes very much is a subject of dispute, and many have tried it and disagree it is better. Do you see a difference?
  - BeetleB 4y ago
    > It is ridiculous for people with eyes to not use their own eyes except to read studies as to whether their own eyes prefer light or dark. What part of "It's just a preference thing" are you disputing?
    - IncRnd 4y ago
      > What part of "It's just a preference thing" are you disputing? That wasn't part of my comment, which I why I didn't quote that. > I'm quite surprised people still believe there are inherent benefits to dark mode. There's not really much research supporting it. You were not saying "it's just a preference thing" there.
  - kriro 4y ago
    The problem with this approach is that it is biased towards short term effects at the cost of long term effects and when you realize this it's too late already. "Feels better" is obviously a very good heuristic and usually what's good short term is probably more likely to be good than bad long term and millions of people rely on this heuristic but it's good to be aware of the shortcomings of this approach.
    - laserlight 4y ago
      Came here to say the same. A good example is low-quality sunglasses that don't block UV light. Pupils dilate when wearing sunglasses, because there's less light coming in. Dilated pupils let more UV light in compared to naked eye vision. Subjective experience might be relief, yet it's at the cost of long-term retinal health.
  - lelanthran 4y ago
    > My comment does not mention anecdotal evidence but a person using their eyes to perform an experiment. That's exactly what anecdotal means: one person's account of something. What did you think it meant?
brigade 4y ago
Just as I don’t need research either to know that dark mode inherently increases eye strain thanks to the afterimages caused by using it for more than a couple dozen seconds at a time. I have my own two eyes after all, and plenty of other eyes across the web agree.
- doix 4y ago
  > Just as I don’t need research either to know that dark mode inherently increases eye strain thanks to the afterimages caused by using it for more than a couple dozen seconds at a time. You've probably got your brightness too high if you're getting after images. I use darkmode when I'm inside and turn my monitor brightness down. When I'm outside, I switch to lightmode and max out my monitor display. Work for me. I suspect this is an extremely difficult question to answer until we have a perfect model of humans. Maybe there is some gene/mutation that affects something to do with brightness/darkness. Maybe there is some adaptation that happens after staring at at dark/light mode. Unfortunately we are extremely far from having good models of the human body :(.
  - wruza 4y ago
    It’s too dim and too low contrast for me when I dial it down and leaves afterimages when it’s enough. It is a personal thing. Also, for programming I’m using not dark nor bright mode. Something like #ddd on #444 on well-calibrated settings. Almost all sites which implement dark mode are much closer to #neutron_star on #black_hole than that, so I hate them when they fail to follow an OS setting.
    - b112 4y ago
      It's probably because you're using light dark text, on a dark background. To maximize eye-strain reduction: * reduce monitor brightness * increase contrast between background and text For me, light grey background (no blaring, eye smashing white) with black text works well. The only point of "grey not white" is again, to reduce a smashed-in-the-face white background. If one keeps the contrast difference low, that is, slightly-lighter dark text on dark background, then the monitor must be brighter to discern difference between text and background. (Of course, as you have stated, this may not work for you.)
brabel 4y ago
OMG didn't expect to see the "I know this is true and I don't need researchers telling me otherwise" argument here.
- IncRnd 4y ago
  > OMG didn't expect to see the "I know this is true and I don't need researchers telling me otherwise" argument here. And, you didn't see that here. That you would even think that shows that you didn't read what was written. It is ridiculous to wait for what others say about whether dark or light mode strains one's eyes more, since each person already has a pair of eyes to test what works for them.
  - inexcf 4y ago
    Can I interest you in some homeopathic remedies or a bottle of snake oil? Maybe prayer? History is full of people who thought/think their bias and anecdotal evidence is good enough.
    - theclansman 4y ago
      Just trust the science bro
      - Koshkin 4y ago
        “Science” is such an empty word, though. “Knowledge” and “research” are more concrete, and you can always ask whether knowledge is reliable and where its limit lie, and whether research is trustworthy.
    - tobr 4y ago
      Those are some very poor comparisons. Maybe if someone is claiming that dark mode or light mode have long-term effects on your health, but what people are actually claiming is just that they find one or the other more comfortable. There’s no meaningful scientific “truth” to that beyond a person’s own stated preference, just like there’s no scientifically most comfortable pair of pants or best color of wall paint. For what it’s worth, my preference of pants is definitely biased and based on anecdotal evidence. I have a pair of legs to test it with myself.
l0ner 4y ago
I do think it is a preference thing, but I also believe not all eyes are the same. I am myself visually impaired, and it is _so much_ easier to read a screen in dark mode. That is likely a different experience with healthy and eyes, but not all healthy eyes are the same either.
zo1 4y ago
Not everyone has eyes, on-average, the same as yours. E.g. I have astigmatism and dark-mode (crisp bright lines/dots on dark backgrounds) wreck absolute havoc on my ability to focus and read. And promoting "dark mode is good no matter what", forcing us to objectively think that we should be using it despite our medical conditions, is not helpful.
michaelcampbell 4y ago
The flat-earth logic. I'm not saying you're wrong, but you're one anecdata point without study.
stcroixx 4y ago
Now increase your sample size. Then, maybe, start to draw conclusions.

by IncRnd 4y ago

verinus 4y ago

err well- anecdotal evidence may be a good basis for a theory that could be validated using an experiment, but it does not suffice to be calling somebody elses' argument ridiculous...

IncRnd 4y ago
My comment does not mention anecdotal evidence but a person using their eyes to perform an experiment. That is clearly not anecdotal. It is ridiculous for people with eyes to not use their own eyes except to read studies as to whether their own eyes prefer light or dark. That should be obvious.
- BossingAround 4y ago
  > My comment does not mention anecdotal evidence but a person using their eyes to perform an experiment. That is clearly not anecdotal. It is clearly anecdotal [1] at the very least to everyone else that reads your comment. It is also clearly insufficient to draw any scientifically valid conclusions. [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anecdotal%20evidence https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anecdotal%20evide...
  - IncRnd 4y ago
    > It is clearly anecdotal [1] at the very least to everyone else that reads your comment. It is also clearly insufficient to draw any scientifically valid conclusions. You are simply repeating something enough that you believe it to be true. You are misinformed about the meaning of the word anecdotal [1] and appear to be playing word games between "anecdotal", "anecdotal evidence", and a misunderstanding of what I wrote. > It is also clearly insufficient to draw any scientifically valid conclusions. What is the "it" in your comment? An experiment that someone performs is not anecdotal. [2] [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anecdotal https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anecdotal [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence
    - boomboomsubban 4y ago
      Your own link starts with "Anecdotal evidence is evidence based only on personal observation." Even if you actually performed some experiment on yourself, unless you had some outside method of calculating eye strain it would still be anecdotal evidence.
  - jaharios 4y ago
    Do you put your hand over fire or you need a study to confirm that fire will burn you?
    - BeetleB 4y ago
      That a hand over fire will burn you is not a subject of dispute. Everyone who attempts it knows it. That dark mode is better for the eyes very much is a subject of dispute, and many have tried it and disagree it is better. Do you see a difference?
- BeetleB 4y ago
  > It is ridiculous for people with eyes to not use their own eyes except to read studies as to whether their own eyes prefer light or dark. What part of "It's just a preference thing" are you disputing?
  - IncRnd 4y ago
    > What part of "It's just a preference thing" are you disputing? That wasn't part of my comment, which I why I didn't quote that. > I'm quite surprised people still believe there are inherent benefits to dark mode. There's not really much research supporting it. You were not saying "it's just a preference thing" there.
- kriro 4y ago
  The problem with this approach is that it is biased towards short term effects at the cost of long term effects and when you realize this it's too late already. "Feels better" is obviously a very good heuristic and usually what's good short term is probably more likely to be good than bad long term and millions of people rely on this heuristic but it's good to be aware of the shortcomings of this approach.
  - laserlight 4y ago
    Came here to say the same. A good example is low-quality sunglasses that don't block UV light. Pupils dilate when wearing sunglasses, because there's less light coming in. Dilated pupils let more UV light in compared to naked eye vision. Subjective experience might be relief, yet it's at the cost of long-term retinal health.
- lelanthran 4y ago
  > My comment does not mention anecdotal evidence but a person using their eyes to perform an experiment. That's exactly what anecdotal means: one person's account of something. What did you think it meant?

brigade 4y ago

Just as I don’t need research either to know that dark mode inherently increases eye strain thanks to the afterimages caused by using it for more than a couple dozen seconds at a time. I have my own two eyes after all, and plenty of other eyes across the web agree.

doix 4y ago
> Just as I don’t need research either to know that dark mode inherently increases eye strain thanks to the afterimages caused by using it for more than a couple dozen seconds at a time. You've probably got your brightness too high if you're getting after images. I use darkmode when I'm inside and turn my monitor brightness down. When I'm outside, I switch to lightmode and max out my monitor display. Work for me. I suspect this is an extremely difficult question to answer until we have a perfect model of humans. Maybe there is some gene/mutation that affects something to do with brightness/darkness. Maybe there is some adaptation that happens after staring at at dark/light mode. Unfortunately we are extremely far from having good models of the human body :(.
- wruza 4y ago
  It’s too dim and too low contrast for me when I dial it down and leaves afterimages when it’s enough. It is a personal thing. Also, for programming I’m using not dark nor bright mode. Something like #ddd on #444 on well-calibrated settings. Almost all sites which implement dark mode are much closer to #neutron_star on #black_hole than that, so I hate them when they fail to follow an OS setting.
  - b112 4y ago
    It's probably because you're using light dark text, on a dark background. To maximize eye-strain reduction: * reduce monitor brightness * increase contrast between background and text For me, light grey background (no blaring, eye smashing white) with black text works well. The only point of "grey not white" is again, to reduce a smashed-in-the-face white background. If one keeps the contrast difference low, that is, slightly-lighter dark text on dark background, then the monitor must be brighter to discern difference between text and background. (Of course, as you have stated, this may not work for you.)

brabel 4y ago

OMG didn't expect to see the "I know this is true and I don't need researchers telling me otherwise" argument here.

IncRnd 4y ago
> OMG didn't expect to see the "I know this is true and I don't need researchers telling me otherwise" argument here. And, you didn't see that here. That you would even think that shows that you didn't read what was written. It is ridiculous to wait for what others say about whether dark or light mode strains one's eyes more, since each person already has a pair of eyes to test what works for them.
- inexcf 4y ago
  Can I interest you in some homeopathic remedies or a bottle of snake oil? Maybe prayer? History is full of people who thought/think their bias and anecdotal evidence is good enough.
  - theclansman 4y ago
    Just trust the science bro
    - Koshkin 4y ago
      “Science” is such an empty word, though. “Knowledge” and “research” are more concrete, and you can always ask whether knowledge is reliable and where its limit lie, and whether research is trustworthy.
  - tobr 4y ago
    Those are some very poor comparisons. Maybe if someone is claiming that dark mode or light mode have long-term effects on your health, but what people are actually claiming is just that they find one or the other more comfortable. There’s no meaningful scientific “truth” to that beyond a person’s own stated preference, just like there’s no scientifically most comfortable pair of pants or best color of wall paint. For what it’s worth, my preference of pants is definitely biased and based on anecdotal evidence. I have a pair of legs to test it with myself.

l0ner 4y ago

I do think it is a preference thing, but I also believe not all eyes are the same. I am myself visually impaired, and it is _so much_ easier to read a screen in dark mode. That is likely a different experience with healthy and eyes, but not all healthy eyes are the same either.

zo1 4y ago

Not everyone has eyes, on-average, the same as yours. E.g. I have astigmatism and dark-mode (crisp bright lines/dots on dark backgrounds) wreck absolute havoc on my ability to focus and read. And promoting "dark mode is good no matter what", forcing us to objectively think that we should be using it despite our medical conditions, is not helpful.

michaelcampbell 4y ago

The flat-earth logic. I'm not saying you're wrong, but you're one anecdata point without study.

stcroixx 4y ago

Now increase your sample size. Then, maybe, start to draw conclusions.