4 ms·

I actually happen to work in this industry, and this is definitely correct. We've actually shifting towards licensing more webtoons than manga, because in the d

I actually happen to work in this industry, and this is definitely correct. We've actually shifting towards licensing more webtoons than manga, because in the digital world, manga doesn't sell very well (unless you're dealing with Shounen Jump content which is all taken anyway), and webtoons have a huge growing popularity. It's kind of funny when I look at our platform's stats, how the mobile audience is mainly webtoons and the web audience is mainly manga (and much smaller). The Japanese publishers definitely know this is a huge issue imo, unlike what this article says. It's hard not to when a Korean app combining webtoons and manga (Piccoma) has dominated the Japanese Play/Apple store's rankings and shown the publishers the potential of the market. It's kind of humiliating honestly. That's why they're trying to get in on the business by spinning up webtoon studios and doing manga -> webtoon conversions. Some are doing OK, most aren't. Note for anyone interested in entering the market: Korean webtoons currently consist mostly of a duopoly between Kakao and Naver. When a good webtoon is produced, the studio usually has to sign an exclusive contract with one of them, and they both have either launched platforms in all popular foreign languages, or have bought out the biggest ones, so squeezing in is not very easy. On that note, I'm very surprised this article doesn't mention the alternative: Chinese webtoons. They're pretty huge as well. Another fun fact: It's kind of hard to find "webtoons" if that's what you're looking for, because Naver tries to scare anyone who wants to use that word (they also own the "Webtoon" platform, which is larger than any other in existence in the foreign market). You'll see stuff like "Smarttoon", "Mangatoon", "Vericomix", and other made-up terms that really just mean webtoon.

BlueTankEngine 4y ago
You used the word humiliating, which I found so strong I had to check the numbers myself. They are every bit as shocking as you made it sound. Yet another area of Japanese culture that Korea/China has been able to just take minor steps to digitally modernize, and in turn exponentially improve it's globally mass-marketability. Korea did it in music, China (and to some extent Korea) has done it in gaming, and it really does seem like Korea/China have done it in comics. Thanks for the tip, info I've gained from the last few hours of reading due to your comment will hit the pages of at least a handful of my slide decks next year.
- YurgenJurgensen 4y ago
  Looking at what has actually come out of that push for "global mass-marketability", which is to say a lot of huge money machines and not a lot of art, the worst thing that could result from this is Japanese publishers trying to replicate this, as basically none of the internationally successful Japanese auteur creators would have had their works greenlit if they'd had to pass some global mass-marketability criteria.
  - BlueTankEngine 4y ago
    Yeah I agree with you on all the way down to the very foundational fiber of my being. Luckily though Japanese publishers will at most just add webtoons on top of their current operations and that will be that. Jpop still more or less exactly the same as before YG and Hybe made Idols universal, Japanese games are for the most part still as unique as the were before Mihoyo and Smilegate changed the ARPG industry landscape. I sincerely believe that Shueisha, Kodansha, and the broader manga sphere will remain largely the same as we move in to the future. I work in Media merchant banking (Investment Banking + Private Equity), so what webtoons will possibly allow me to do is show Western-raised or older generation generation capital holders another vector by which Asian literary media is a worthwhile investment. I'd walk a mile through broken glass to funnel 100 mil USD into the manga industry, but obviously the amount of opportunities that arise where I can attempt to push the needle in that direction is slim. Webtoons might be a viable vector in some cases where manga isnt financially, and I've seen enough relatively impressive webtoons to feel that money is better spent there than most other places.
    - shubb 4y ago
      Are you following what's going on with these online serial novel platforms like Qidian and Japanese equivalents? They seem to be the wellspring for a lot of the IP recently but penetration to the west still seems kinda low. It's really interesting how authors use these kind of narrative dark patterns to keep readers buying chapters and the effect that has on the story they end up writing.
irusensei 4y ago
I'm yet to find something I'd like to read. I'm a big fan of slice of life elements mixed with fantasy and so far haven't found anything on the Korean and Chinese side that interests me. It's all power fantasy or soap operas. There doesn't seem to be none in between. Talking about Sousou no Frieren and Houseki no Kuni. Creative comedy like Dungeon Meshi. So far I'm yet to find some webtoon that interests me.
- chocolatkey 4y ago
  I'm definitely not disagreeing that manga can be more interesting. I'm mainly a manga reader myself, and find many more interesting series covering esoteric topics. But it's about appealing to the largest possible audience, and the reality (and I say this once again based on my and other's stats) is that currently, the male audience wants some variation of the escapist video game or medieval Europe setting with the weak-to-overpowered protagonist using swords and sorcery, probably reincarnated or time-traveling from the life of a loser/weakling. The female audience wants a medieval Europe setting where the protagonist (probably originally an average-looking female in our world or theirs) is either a "villainess", maid, knight or someone other position that makes is possible to have a reverse harem of hot guys with a sadistic or cold-to-warm (tsundere) personality. Those setups are being endlessly mined for new series, just adjust the variables and bam, new series. I do think that there are also some unique webtoons out there, you're just going to have trouble finding them because they're buried beneath the huge pile of more widespread popular series, which is what all the artists with talent are focusing on (Korean webtoon studios, and the industry as a whole, is a lot more profit-driven). It's also easy to judge a webtoon by its cover and think "oh yet another OP protagonist". Try some out, maybe you'll like one!
- bowsamic 4y ago
  Manga is more culturally developed, but it's just that it makes less money
- creakingstairs 4y ago
  > I'm a big fan of slice of life elements mixed with fantasy and so far haven't found anything on the Korean ... . It's all power fantasy or soap operas. As a Korean who used to read webtoon since the very start, this is what I feel these days too. There are more webtoons than ever, but they are all so generic.

BlueTankEngine 4y ago

You used the word humiliating, which I found so strong I had to check the numbers myself. They are every bit as shocking as you made it sound. Yet another area of Japanese culture that Korea/China has been able to just take minor steps to digitally modernize, and in turn exponentially improve it's globally mass-marketability. Korea did it in music, China (and to some extent Korea) has done it in gaming, and it really does seem like Korea/China have done it in comics. Thanks for the tip, info I've gained from the last few hours of reading due to your comment will hit the pages of at least a handful of my slide decks next year.

YurgenJurgensen 4y ago
Looking at what has actually come out of that push for "global mass-marketability", which is to say a lot of huge money machines and not a lot of art, the worst thing that could result from this is Japanese publishers trying to replicate this, as basically none of the internationally successful Japanese auteur creators would have had their works greenlit if they'd had to pass some global mass-marketability criteria.
- BlueTankEngine 4y ago
  Yeah I agree with you on all the way down to the very foundational fiber of my being. Luckily though Japanese publishers will at most just add webtoons on top of their current operations and that will be that. Jpop still more or less exactly the same as before YG and Hybe made Idols universal, Japanese games are for the most part still as unique as the were before Mihoyo and Smilegate changed the ARPG industry landscape. I sincerely believe that Shueisha, Kodansha, and the broader manga sphere will remain largely the same as we move in to the future. I work in Media merchant banking (Investment Banking + Private Equity), so what webtoons will possibly allow me to do is show Western-raised or older generation generation capital holders another vector by which Asian literary media is a worthwhile investment. I'd walk a mile through broken glass to funnel 100 mil USD into the manga industry, but obviously the amount of opportunities that arise where I can attempt to push the needle in that direction is slim. Webtoons might be a viable vector in some cases where manga isnt financially, and I've seen enough relatively impressive webtoons to feel that money is better spent there than most other places.
  - shubb 4y ago
    Are you following what's going on with these online serial novel platforms like Qidian and Japanese equivalents? They seem to be the wellspring for a lot of the IP recently but penetration to the west still seems kinda low. It's really interesting how authors use these kind of narrative dark patterns to keep readers buying chapters and the effect that has on the story they end up writing.

irusensei 4y ago

I'm yet to find something I'd like to read. I'm a big fan of slice of life elements mixed with fantasy and so far haven't found anything on the Korean and Chinese side that interests me. It's all power fantasy or soap operas. There doesn't seem to be none in between. Talking about Sousou no Frieren and Houseki no Kuni. Creative comedy like Dungeon Meshi. So far I'm yet to find some webtoon that interests me.

chocolatkey 4y ago
I'm definitely not disagreeing that manga can be more interesting. I'm mainly a manga reader myself, and find many more interesting series covering esoteric topics. But it's about appealing to the largest possible audience, and the reality (and I say this once again based on my and other's stats) is that currently, the male audience wants some variation of the escapist video game or medieval Europe setting with the weak-to-overpowered protagonist using swords and sorcery, probably reincarnated or time-traveling from the life of a loser/weakling. The female audience wants a medieval Europe setting where the protagonist (probably originally an average-looking female in our world or theirs) is either a "villainess", maid, knight or someone other position that makes is possible to have a reverse harem of hot guys with a sadistic or cold-to-warm (tsundere) personality. Those setups are being endlessly mined for new series, just adjust the variables and bam, new series. I do think that there are also some unique webtoons out there, you're just going to have trouble finding them because they're buried beneath the huge pile of more widespread popular series, which is what all the artists with talent are focusing on (Korean webtoon studios, and the industry as a whole, is a lot more profit-driven). It's also easy to judge a webtoon by its cover and think "oh yet another OP protagonist". Try some out, maybe you'll like one!
bowsamic 4y ago
Manga is more culturally developed, but it's just that it makes less money
creakingstairs 4y ago
> I'm a big fan of slice of life elements mixed with fantasy and so far haven't found anything on the Korean ... . It's all power fantasy or soap operas. As a Korean who used to read webtoon since the very start, this is what I feel these days too. There are more webtoons than ever, but they are all so generic.