3 ms·

I can see two obvious differences. 1) the text editor shipped with the OS is extremely basic. It is not competing to be the world's favourite text editor, and

I can see two obvious differences. 1) the text editor shipped with the OS is extremely basic. It is not competing to be the world's favourite text editor, and is probably required to have a usable OS out of the box. 2) the web browser was essentially a competing platform to the OS itself for many user tasks. To leverage your monopoly on one platform to control another is against anti trust.

WalterBright 4y ago
1. EDLIN wasn't much different from the text editor I used on the PDP-10 just a few years earlier. Lots of people used EDLIN and saw no need for another. Also, Netscape was an extremely buggy browser - it crashed all the time. Explorer was far more reliable. It was better. 2. If it was doing essential OS tasks, then it was part of the operating system.
- guitarbill 4y ago
  Maybe IE was better for a while. But for a long time it wasn't, and it wasn't allowed to stand by itself. That was the problem. It was the de facto standard, not by being good, but by being pushed via Windows. I hope we can agree a text editor is different that a browser, word processor, or an IDE (at least nowadays). Nobody complains that Microsoft ships Nodepad or Paint, because they are the bare minimum and avoidable. Hell, they shipped Nodepad and Wordpad, and neither dented Word's market share. Regarding 2, this is unbelievably naive. For such an important product, of course Microsoft would find a way to make it do "essential" OS tasks. Apple/iOS is obviously much worse in this regard. But for better or worse, iOS devices are a minority in the EU.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    What's unbelievable is Microsoft being charged with a crime for giving away free stuff that was significantly better than any other implementation out there. As if giving consumers free tools was harming them. As if Microsoft ever prevented any other browser from being installed. Never mind that today nearly every OS comes with a free browser. Even my Kindle comes with one.
  - jodrellblank 4y ago
    > "Regarding 2, this is unbelievably naive. For such an important product, of course Microsoft would find a way to make it do "essential" OS tasks." The Start Menu in Windows 10/11 is HTML/CSS. It's not a matter of "finding ways" to make it do things, HTML was pushed as being the document description / display technology, why wouldn't Microsoft use it for Explorer folder views and Active Desktop? Why shouldn't they be allowed to? You could embed web pages in the Win98 desktop background, that's the kind of embedded document thing people were researching and crowing about in the 60s and 70s in alternative OS's. It's the kind of thing users wanted with rainmeter and SysInternals' bginfo. IIRC you could edit the CSS and change the theme of Explorer folder views, give them new colours and background images. > "Nobody complains that Microsoft ships Nodepad or Paint, because they are the bare minimum and avoidable." Nobody complains that Microsoft shipped the best CSharp compiler csc.exe (before .Net span off into its own thing), and didn't ship or encourage Mono or Xamarin compilers. Or PowerShell and not Perl. Why don't those things attract the interests of the courts? And now they can ship Edge, and that's apparently fine now?

WalterBright 4y ago

1. EDLIN wasn't much different from the text editor I used on the PDP-10 just a few years earlier. Lots of people used EDLIN and saw no need for another. Also, Netscape was an extremely buggy browser - it crashed all the time. Explorer was far more reliable. It was better. 2. If it was doing essential OS tasks, then it was part of the operating system.

guitarbill 4y ago
Maybe IE was better for a while. But for a long time it wasn't, and it wasn't allowed to stand by itself. That was the problem. It was the de facto standard, not by being good, but by being pushed via Windows. I hope we can agree a text editor is different that a browser, word processor, or an IDE (at least nowadays). Nobody complains that Microsoft ships Nodepad or Paint, because they are the bare minimum and avoidable. Hell, they shipped Nodepad and Wordpad, and neither dented Word's market share. Regarding 2, this is unbelievably naive. For such an important product, of course Microsoft would find a way to make it do "essential" OS tasks. Apple/iOS is obviously much worse in this regard. But for better or worse, iOS devices are a minority in the EU.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  What's unbelievable is Microsoft being charged with a crime for giving away free stuff that was significantly better than any other implementation out there. As if giving consumers free tools was harming them. As if Microsoft ever prevented any other browser from being installed. Never mind that today nearly every OS comes with a free browser. Even my Kindle comes with one.
- jodrellblank 4y ago
  > "Regarding 2, this is unbelievably naive. For such an important product, of course Microsoft would find a way to make it do "essential" OS tasks." The Start Menu in Windows 10/11 is HTML/CSS. It's not a matter of "finding ways" to make it do things, HTML was pushed as being the document description / display technology, why wouldn't Microsoft use it for Explorer folder views and Active Desktop? Why shouldn't they be allowed to? You could embed web pages in the Win98 desktop background, that's the kind of embedded document thing people were researching and crowing about in the 60s and 70s in alternative OS's. It's the kind of thing users wanted with rainmeter and SysInternals' bginfo. IIRC you could edit the CSS and change the theme of Explorer folder views, give them new colours and background images. > "Nobody complains that Microsoft ships Nodepad or Paint, because they are the bare minimum and avoidable." Nobody complains that Microsoft shipped the best CSharp compiler csc.exe (before .Net span off into its own thing), and didn't ship or encourage Mono or Xamarin compilers. Or PowerShell and not Perl. Why don't those things attract the interests of the courts? And now they can ship Edge, and that's apparently fine now?