5 ms·

I honestly fail to see what properties of the language has anything to do with the metaverse, or millions of devs, etc... At first I though the "choice" constr

I honestly fail to see what properties of the language has anything to do with the metaverse, or millions of devs, etc... At first I though the "choice" construct would be a way to distribute code execution among multiple computers (using the fact that in a grandiose metaverse, everything would be a connected computer with lots of compute time to spare ?) but there is not much detail. Also it's not obvious from the slide if there is already a compiler / exécution env at the moment, or how far they are from it. Now, the names behind this aren't exactly bozos, so I suppose we'll get to know soon. Wait and see, I guess ?

Avshalom 4y ago
I mean logic languages have a history of... trying to be distributed but it's never really worked out.
- qayxc 4y ago
  My guess would be that it's the usual case of trying to solve a non-technical issue by throwing new technology at it. I honestly cannot wrap my head around how a programming language of all things should solve the "millions of programmers working on a thing"-issue.
WillPostForFood 4y ago
Also it's not obvious from the slide if there is already a compiler / exécution env at the moment, or how far they are from it. It is expected to release in January as part of Fortnight Creative (delayed from this month).
pizza 4y ago
I guess I sort of see where it's coming from - the context is that hundreds of devs have to write code that has to preemptively cooperate with other code. So I think the lenient evaluation might be key for this. Suppose you wander into a new environment, it contains some object x, and it has some capability f(x). Suppose your avatar or whatever has some code that already integrates with this f(x). You could just call f(x) in advance, and once you enter that environment, it lazily executes f(x). Or maybe I'm way off base here.
ww520 4y ago
I guess it's because metaverse funds it? So it has to tie to metaverse in some angle.
- phtrivier 4y ago
  I don't know enough about Fortnite, but at some point if the metaverse wants to escape the "it's just a video game" trope, it's going to have to be... More than a video game, I guess ? Can epic do that ? Facebook a least "invented" a form a "passing time" (I'm being generous not to call it wasting time) that doubled as an advertising and marketing platform. And even that only took aff with the advent of smartphones, which enabled "using Facebook / twitter on the go" (and, more accurately, "on the loo"). When there's a VR helmet attached in every toilet, though... I'll sell hemoroid creams :)
mrkeen 4y ago
> I honestly fail to see what properties of the language has anything to do with the metaverse, or millions of devs, etc... They're pushing transactions straight from the beginning, which I think is the sanest way for multiple actors to all try to interact with the same world. And for the compiler to stay sane in dealing with transactions, it's necessary to mark effects, which is also in the slides. The inclusion of effects & transactions already puts it way outside of the mainstream, even without the Logic stuff (which I admittedly don't understand yet)
- bmitc 4y ago
  What are transactions in this context? Message passing?
  - adastra22 4y ago
    And entity updates, I presume.
  - morelisp 4y ago
    Classic multiplayer world problem - I want to give you 10 monies for your rare sword. At no point, from any view should I have 10 monies and the sword, nor you the sword and 10 monies, and especially bad is if neither of us have either. Also, it shouldn't be possible for someone to lure a goblin over to stab me forcing me to cancel the trade because I died and warped back home. Also it needs to happen within like 200ms because otherwise people will leave for a less laggy game.

Avshalom 4y ago

I mean logic languages have a history of... trying to be distributed but it's never really worked out.

qayxc 4y ago
My guess would be that it's the usual case of trying to solve a non-technical issue by throwing new technology at it. I honestly cannot wrap my head around how a programming language of all things should solve the "millions of programmers working on a thing"-issue.

WillPostForFood 4y ago

Also it's not obvious from the slide if there is already a compiler / exécution env at the moment, or how far they are from it. It is expected to release in January as part of Fortnight Creative (delayed from this month).

pizza 4y ago

I guess I sort of see where it's coming from - the context is that hundreds of devs have to write code that has to preemptively cooperate with other code. So I think the lenient evaluation might be key for this. Suppose you wander into a new environment, it contains some object x, and it has some capability f(x). Suppose your avatar or whatever has some code that already integrates with this f(x). You could just call f(x) in advance, and once you enter that environment, it lazily executes f(x). Or maybe I'm way off base here.

ww520 4y ago

I guess it's because metaverse funds it? So it has to tie to metaverse in some angle.

phtrivier 4y ago
I don't know enough about Fortnite, but at some point if the metaverse wants to escape the "it's just a video game" trope, it's going to have to be... More than a video game, I guess ? Can epic do that ? Facebook a least "invented" a form a "passing time" (I'm being generous not to call it wasting time) that doubled as an advertising and marketing platform. And even that only took aff with the advent of smartphones, which enabled "using Facebook / twitter on the go" (and, more accurately, "on the loo"). When there's a VR helmet attached in every toilet, though... I'll sell hemoroid creams :)

mrkeen 4y ago

> I honestly fail to see what properties of the language has anything to do with the metaverse, or millions of devs, etc... They're pushing transactions straight from the beginning, which I think is the sanest way for multiple actors to all try to interact with the same world. And for the compiler to stay sane in dealing with transactions, it's necessary to mark effects, which is also in the slides. The inclusion of effects & transactions already puts it way outside of the mainstream, even without the Logic stuff (which I admittedly don't understand yet)

bmitc 4y ago
What are transactions in this context? Message passing?
- adastra22 4y ago
  And entity updates, I presume.
- morelisp 4y ago
  Classic multiplayer world problem - I want to give you 10 monies for your rare sword. At no point, from any view should I have 10 monies and the sword, nor you the sword and 10 monies, and especially bad is if neither of us have either. Also, it shouldn't be possible for someone to lure a goblin over to stab me forcing me to cancel the trade because I died and warped back home. Also it needs to happen within like 200ms because otherwise people will leave for a less laggy game.