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Yes this is very well put, you really hit the nail on the head here on the sort of reverse bell curve of signaling.. For the very wealthy.. If you show enough
by steveBK123 4y ago
Yes this is very well put, you really hit the nail on the head here on the sort of reverse bell curve of signaling..
For the very wealthy..
If you show enough interest in something to make signaling purchases, it's expected to be "up to snuff" .. this can mean very very high expense or high esotericness.
So that might mean a $200k sports car, or it might mean some uncommon though inexpensive limited production vintage vehicle even though it may be of reasonable price, the time & effort you took to acquire & maintain it is a signal of taste.
Otherwise you'd be better off signaling complete disinterest with a very vanilla middle of the road options.
On menswear I think to your example, you could say you'd be better off not wearing a suit than in wearing a $200 Men's Wearhouse suit. To that end, these days, the type of people you tend to see in suits are either security / front desk staff or very senior corporate executives. Those in the middle have enough labor negotiating power to not be required to wear a suit, but probably not the desire/wealth to spend $2k on a properly tailored suit.
- SoftTalker 4y agoVery senior/wealthy people can get away with whatever they want. It's why Zuckerberg can look like a total slob at Facebook (notice he still wore a suit while testifying to Congress though). If a senior executive wore a $200 suit to work, nobody would say a word.
- steveBK123 4y agoTrue, but they are more likely to wear a $400 hoodie than a $200 suit. Outside SBF, even the executives dressing "casually" are still doing so expensively.
- seattle_spring 4y ago> Zuckerberg can look like a total slob at Facebook Huh, custom tshirts and well fitting jeans counts as "looking like a total slob" now? Fwiw I'd rather work with / for someone that dresses like that over formal any day of the week.
- nobodyandproud 4y agoYes. I like t-shirts and jeans and never want to go back to suits and ties but.. When I went to Japan a decade ago, I realized just how informal and slovenly American working attire had become.
- cercatrova 4y agoNotice how that's all for show too. Relatedly, Japanese people often don't work harder than Americans, they simply stay at the office longer. I also prefer what lack of formal attire signals: in Japanese workplaces, the more senior, the more respect for their ideas, regardless of whether the idea is actually better. Formal attire legitimizes their seniority but I'd rather have a meritocratic system of vetting ideas, and informality signals that too.
- nobodyandproud 4y agoThis is true. Though I think many imitate regardless of the tribe/workforce/culture in order to fit in. Look at the schools. It’s informal but there are definitely trends and fashions to follow in order to relate. Just a thought, but the change in attire, then, is to create some formal distance between management and direct reports.
- astrange 4y agoJapanese suits/uniforms are often pretty cheap (and look that way) - thus the low end “recruit suit”. They are tailored, but the level of body-fitting they are would be actively unacceptable in the US. By which I mean, everyone would think you’re gay. On the other hand, Japan is the home of expensive high end recreations of American casual clothes - look up Take Ivy, BEAMS, nice selvedge jeans, etc.
- nobodyandproud 4y ago> On the other hand, Japan is the home of expensive high end recreations of American casual clothes - look up Take Ivy, BEAMS, nice selvedge jeans, etc. I remember some acquaintances running a decent side business buying and then selling vintage American clothes back in Japan (shipping or flying back). This was back in the 1990s so I believe it. (it also brought back some fond memories)
- Reebz 4y agoZuckerberg wears $800 tshirts amongst other carefully selected pieces of his wardrobe. He isn’t rummaging through a local Target for a basic tee and jeans. I think this is a good example of countersignal interpretation!
- csomar 4y ago$800 tshirts have the same fabric as a Uniqlo tshirt (or maybe worse?). > amongst other carefully selected pieces of his wardrobe so if it was not that carefully selected, he'd look like a homeless?
- hammock 4y agoIf a sr exec wore a $200 suit to work, it would be noticed. Maybe in a warren buffet folksy sort of way. How they tell defense attorneys not to dress too flashy
- b112 4y ago(notice he still wore a suit while testifying to Congress though). Don't like the guy, his company, his policies. And I tend to repect our elected officals more than most. But the idea of showing up dressed in a t-shirt and jeans, and/or a hoodie, make me smile broadly.