6 ms·

I wish antitrust enforcement focused on this stuff again. Remember when MS merely including a web browser at all was brought into question?

dehrmann 4y ago
Microsoft also used to have 90% market share. It's less impressive now that Mac is a viable competitor and iOS and Android are good enough for 80% of common tasks.
- goosedragons 4y ago
  How much of the Office Suite market do they have though?
  - tinus_hn 4y ago
    If you want to use the Microsoft Office suite, it’s available on the Mac, included in Office365.
- barbariangrunge 4y ago
  By viable competitor, do you mean OS that I can’t possibly use for work or for proper gaming? Mac isn’t any more viable than Ubuntu, which is why I have an Ubuntu laptop (But a windows desktop, by utter necessity) (Edit: Actually, when it comes to gaming, Linux is getting better and better) 80% of common tasks isn’t enough when part of the remaining 20% is absolutely necessary for work
  - jazzyjackson 4y ago
    I mean, obviously it depends on the work - as if macbooks weren't standard issue at many companies ostensibly doing some kind of work if your cad software or whatever doesn't work with your OS of choice I'd take it up with the vendor
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - syeare 4y ago
    Can you elaborate? I never had a Mac device before this year, but it can do all the document processing (M$ Office) I need for work/school, almost all audio-related stuff (DAWs and VSTs), and video/photo (ugh I know but Adobe) that I need it to, even though its a brand new chip architecture. It can't do games but I have a M$ desktop just for that and for some rendering stuff
    - i_am_proteus 4y ago
      Windows advertising features were bugging me, so I tried to install MacOS on my computer, but Apple told me that I would have to purchase different hardware from them directly if I wanted to run their software. Seems like MacOS does not run on hardware that is not sold by Apple.
      - colejohnson66 4y ago
        It does; just not out of the box. They only include drivers for their hardware; You have to compile your own kexts. The EULA, however, does “prevent” you from doing such a thing, but unless you’re selling “Hackintoshes”, Apple isn’t going to care.
        satvikpendem 4y ago
        The age of the Hackintosh is nearing its end though, due to Apple Silicon.
        GekkePrutser 4y ago
        Well we did have PearPC even before they went Intel. I used it a bit to see if I could do everything I needed before I bought a Mac. It was horribly slow but something more optimized like Rosetta might help. It'll be a much harder game though for sure.
      - wffurr 4y ago
        https://www.tonymacx86.com/buyersguide/building-a-customac-hackintosh-the-ultimate-buyers-guide/ https://www.tonymacx86.com/buyersguide/building-a-customac-h...
- deafpolygon 4y ago
  > that Mac is a viable competitor Almost made me spit out my drink
WalterBright 4y ago
> Remember when MS merely including a web browser at all was brought into question? The very first MS-DOS also included a text editor - for free! Oh, the humanity! Those evil Redmondians!
- WalterBright 4y ago
  I'm curious what the difference is between a free text editor is and a free browser included with the OS. Neither are functions of the operating system. Both have other companies providing such functionality.
  - MattPalmer1086 4y ago
    I can see two obvious differences. 1) the text editor shipped with the OS is extremely basic. It is not competing to be the world's favourite text editor, and is probably required to have a usable OS out of the box. 2) the web browser was essentially a competing platform to the OS itself for many user tasks. To leverage your monopoly on one platform to control another is against anti trust.
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      1. EDLIN wasn't much different from the text editor I used on the PDP-10 just a few years earlier. Lots of people used EDLIN and saw no need for another. Also, Netscape was an extremely buggy browser - it crashed all the time. Explorer was far more reliable. It was better. 2. If it was doing essential OS tasks, then it was part of the operating system.
      - guitarbill 4y ago
        Maybe IE was better for a while. But for a long time it wasn't, and it wasn't allowed to stand by itself. That was the problem. It was the de facto standard, not by being good, but by being pushed via Windows. I hope we can agree a text editor is different that a browser, word processor, or an IDE (at least nowadays). Nobody complains that Microsoft ships Nodepad or Paint, because they are the bare minimum and avoidable. Hell, they shipped Nodepad and Wordpad, and neither dented Word's market share. Regarding 2, this is unbelievably naive. For such an important product, of course Microsoft would find a way to make it do "essential" OS tasks. Apple/iOS is obviously much worse in this regard. But for better or worse, iOS devices are a minority in the EU.
MaxBarraclough 4y ago
In 2013 they were fined $731m by the EU for, as the BBC put it, failing to promote a range of web browsers. They blamed a 'technical error' then too. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21684329 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21684329

dehrmann 4y ago

Microsoft also used to have 90% market share. It's less impressive now that Mac is a viable competitor and iOS and Android are good enough for 80% of common tasks.

goosedragons 4y ago
How much of the Office Suite market do they have though?
- tinus_hn 4y ago
  If you want to use the Microsoft Office suite, it’s available on the Mac, included in Office365.
barbariangrunge 4y ago
By viable competitor, do you mean OS that I can’t possibly use for work or for proper gaming? Mac isn’t any more viable than Ubuntu, which is why I have an Ubuntu laptop (But a windows desktop, by utter necessity) (Edit: Actually, when it comes to gaming, Linux is getting better and better) 80% of common tasks isn’t enough when part of the remaining 20% is absolutely necessary for work
- jazzyjackson 4y ago
  I mean, obviously it depends on the work - as if macbooks weren't standard issue at many companies ostensibly doing some kind of work if your cad software or whatever doesn't work with your OS of choice I'd take it up with the vendor
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- syeare 4y ago
  Can you elaborate? I never had a Mac device before this year, but it can do all the document processing (M$ Office) I need for work/school, almost all audio-related stuff (DAWs and VSTs), and video/photo (ugh I know but Adobe) that I need it to, even though its a brand new chip architecture. It can't do games but I have a M$ desktop just for that and for some rendering stuff
  - i_am_proteus 4y ago
    Windows advertising features were bugging me, so I tried to install MacOS on my computer, but Apple told me that I would have to purchase different hardware from them directly if I wanted to run their software. Seems like MacOS does not run on hardware that is not sold by Apple.
    - colejohnson66 4y ago
      It does; just not out of the box. They only include drivers for their hardware; You have to compile your own kexts. The EULA, however, does “prevent” you from doing such a thing, but unless you’re selling “Hackintoshes”, Apple isn’t going to care.
      - satvikpendem 4y ago
        The age of the Hackintosh is nearing its end though, due to Apple Silicon.
        GekkePrutser 4y ago
        Well we did have PearPC even before they went Intel. I used it a bit to see if I could do everything I needed before I bought a Mac. It was horribly slow but something more optimized like Rosetta might help. It'll be a much harder game though for sure.
    - wffurr 4y ago
      https://www.tonymacx86.com/buyersguide/building-a-customac-hackintosh-the-ultimate-buyers-guide/ https://www.tonymacx86.com/buyersguide/building-a-customac-h...
deafpolygon 4y ago
> that Mac is a viable competitor Almost made me spit out my drink

WalterBright 4y ago

> Remember when MS merely including a web browser at all was brought into question? The very first MS-DOS also included a text editor - for free! Oh, the humanity! Those evil Redmondians!

WalterBright 4y ago
I'm curious what the difference is between a free text editor is and a free browser included with the OS. Neither are functions of the operating system. Both have other companies providing such functionality.
- MattPalmer1086 4y ago
  I can see two obvious differences. 1) the text editor shipped with the OS is extremely basic. It is not competing to be the world's favourite text editor, and is probably required to have a usable OS out of the box. 2) the web browser was essentially a competing platform to the OS itself for many user tasks. To leverage your monopoly on one platform to control another is against anti trust.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    1. EDLIN wasn't much different from the text editor I used on the PDP-10 just a few years earlier. Lots of people used EDLIN and saw no need for another. Also, Netscape was an extremely buggy browser - it crashed all the time. Explorer was far more reliable. It was better. 2. If it was doing essential OS tasks, then it was part of the operating system.
    - guitarbill 4y ago
      Maybe IE was better for a while. But for a long time it wasn't, and it wasn't allowed to stand by itself. That was the problem. It was the de facto standard, not by being good, but by being pushed via Windows. I hope we can agree a text editor is different that a browser, word processor, or an IDE (at least nowadays). Nobody complains that Microsoft ships Nodepad or Paint, because they are the bare minimum and avoidable. Hell, they shipped Nodepad and Wordpad, and neither dented Word's market share. Regarding 2, this is unbelievably naive. For such an important product, of course Microsoft would find a way to make it do "essential" OS tasks. Apple/iOS is obviously much worse in this regard. But for better or worse, iOS devices are a minority in the EU.

MaxBarraclough 4y ago

In 2013 they were fined $731m by the EU for, as the BBC put it, failing to promote a range of web browsers. They blamed a 'technical error' then too. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21684329 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21684329