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This message is 20 years old. Many of us long for the utopia of a Linux desktop that just works, where drivers are up to date and X windows doesn't die due to

This message is 20 years old. Many of us long for the utopia of a Linux desktop that just works, where drivers are up to date and X windows doesn't die due to a yum/apt-get update. This feels like a future parody thread where someone will make fun of our comments.

bombcar 4y ago
The Linux desktop arrived under the guise of Android. The rest is minor noise, sadly. At least it is possible to have a working Linux desktop but that was true twenty years ago.
- actually_a_dog 4y ago
  Oh really? Where are these widely used/popular Android desktop and/or laptop machines?
  - bombcar 4y ago
    They’re called phones and they’re killing the windows desktop like Linux users wanted in the 90s. It’s a very monkey’s paw scenario.
    - actually_a_dog 4y ago
      That’s simply untrue. I have a phone, a tablet, and a laptop. I do different things on each. None has supplanted the others; they all supplement each other.
      - viraptor 4y ago
        You do that, but it doesn't generalise. Mobile phone ownership exceeded laptop/desktop ownership in the us in the last 2 years and the latter is in a slow constant decline. A lot of people are going to be happy with just the phone in the future.
        bombcar 4y ago
        We went from computers being very rare (early on I remember maybe two families out of the whole class had one at home) to heading to above one per person (everyone had a laptop and there would be a desktop, too, or more) during college and now we're headed back towards "about one desktop/laptop per house or a bit more" as most people have phones.
        actually_a_dog 4y ago
        Citation needed. Moreover, what's the evidence that those that make do with only phones would even want to purchase a tablet or laptop? Edit: also, conflating phones with "desktops" is just being glib and disingenous.
        viraptor 4y ago
        > Citation needed Literally the top results for US smartphone ownership. You can do it. > that those that make do with only phones would even want to purchase a tablet or laptop? That's the whole point - they don't need / want one. But given the services that everyone needs are moving online, everyone needs some level of internet access. This effectively moves windows users to Linux/Android as discussed upthread.
        actually_a_dog 4y ago
        I see. So you're not actually going to even try and answer the question? No evidence? Just "I'm going to conflate desktops and phones to make my point?"
    - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y ago
      Accidentally Android spies on you to the extent Microsoft couldn't even dream of in their evilest of dreams. And there is no way to root/control it to prevent that spying. Unlike Windows.
      - smoldesu 4y ago
        > And there is no way to root/control it to prevent that spying. Can you explain what you mean here? How do AOSP ROMs subject themselves to Google's spying, much less the meticulously-designed privacy distributions?
      - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
        > Accidentally Android spies on you to the extent Microsoft couldn't even dream of in their evilest of dreams. And there is no way to root/control it to prevent that spying. Unlike Windows. https://www.grapheneos.org/ https://www.grapheneos.org/
        EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y ago
        I know, but nobody uses it, for a reason.
  - Sebb767 4y ago
    I know a lot of people who use Tablets as their main driver and don't have a PC (or only use it for edge cases). Not even for ideological reasons, it just works for them. It's not universal, but it's not rare, either.
  - betaby 4y ago
    Chromebooks I suppose. https://www.gsmarena.com/pc_and_tablets_see_strong_sales_performance_in_q1_2022_chromebook_sales_plummet_60_globally-news-54201.php https://www.gsmarena.com/pc_and_tablets_see_strong_sales_per...
    - _Algernon_ 4y ago
      They may run Android apps, but they are not Android devices. By that logic, my Linux machine is a Windows machine, because it has Wine/Proton.
lynndotpy 4y ago
This had been the opposite of my experience though. Maybe I got lucky with hardware, but I've never had issues with out-of-date drivers (outside of CUDA dependencies for research work) or having X or Gnome or whatnot break during an update. But, I need to use Windows at my employer, and it's horrible. I wish Windows were at a point where it was ready for development. Right now, the best dev setup is "install Linux in a VM" or "install this collection of incomplete ports/emulation/virtualization of Linux tools". With Proton for gaming and Electron for desktop especially, Linux on the desktop is way different than it was 10 years ago, let alone 20.
- SCLeo 4y ago
  My Nvidia driver literally just died last week or the week before. I had to reinstall it to make it work.
  - doodlesdev 4y ago
    Just out of curiosity (as the website suggests lol), which distro were you using? I long left Nvidia as it's really a no-go on Linux but I noticed different distros had VASTLY different experiences with it. For instance Mint was very stable and simple to install drivers, but they were ofter outdated. Fedora was more work through rpm fusion but I also got a better experience and even managed to use Wayland. Some distros didn't even work with my setup. In my opinion the biggest advantage and problem of Linux is the fragmentation. Linux is a word that encompasses too many variations of many systems on top of different versions with different build options of a kernel. This is why I always choose to talk about a distribution instead of Linux itself, since the kernel is just a part of the system (insert GNU/Linux copypasta here). edit by ChatGPT, which apparently does not know about the copypasta): "Linux is actually GNU/Linux, or as I like to call it, the dynamic duo of the operating system world. The Linux kernel is like Batman, all tough and powerful, while the GNU tools and libraries are like Robin, always there to support and help out. Together, they make a unstoppable team that can take on any challenge. But, let's be real here, without the GNU tools and libraries, the Linux kernel would just be a confused and frustrated little kernel, wondering why it can't do anything useful. So, it's important to give credit where it's due and call the whole operating system GNU/Linux. Now, I know some of you might be thinking, "But wait, isn't Linux just for nerdy hackers and command line wizards?" Well, to those people I say, "Hold my beer, I'll show you how wrong you are." Because, these days, there are plenty of user-friendly Linux distributions that are perfect for everyday users. And, even better, most of them are free and open-source, so you can customize and tweak them to your heart's content. But, let's not forget about the elephant in the room: NVIDIA. Yes, I'm talking about that greedy, selfish, proprietary-loving company that just can't seem to get its act together when it comes to Linux support. I mean, come on guys, we're not asking for much, just some stable drivers that don't crash all the time and support the latest features. Is that too much to ask? Apparently it is, because NVIDIA just keeps letting Linux users down. So, in conclusion, if you want to join the awesome world of GNU/Linux, go for it! You won't regret it. And if you're already using GNU/Linux, give yourself a pat on the back and keep spreading the word. And, if you're using NVIDIA on Linux, well, good luck to you my friend, you're going to need it."
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

bombcar 4y ago

The Linux desktop arrived under the guise of Android. The rest is minor noise, sadly. At least it is possible to have a working Linux desktop but that was true twenty years ago.

actually_a_dog 4y ago
Oh really? Where are these widely used/popular Android desktop and/or laptop machines?
- bombcar 4y ago
  They’re called phones and they’re killing the windows desktop like Linux users wanted in the 90s. It’s a very monkey’s paw scenario.
  - actually_a_dog 4y ago
    That’s simply untrue. I have a phone, a tablet, and a laptop. I do different things on each. None has supplanted the others; they all supplement each other.
    - viraptor 4y ago
      You do that, but it doesn't generalise. Mobile phone ownership exceeded laptop/desktop ownership in the us in the last 2 years and the latter is in a slow constant decline. A lot of people are going to be happy with just the phone in the future.
      - bombcar 4y ago
        We went from computers being very rare (early on I remember maybe two families out of the whole class had one at home) to heading to above one per person (everyone had a laptop and there would be a desktop, too, or more) during college and now we're headed back towards "about one desktop/laptop per house or a bit more" as most people have phones.
      - actually_a_dog 4y ago
        Citation needed. Moreover, what's the evidence that those that make do with only phones would even want to purchase a tablet or laptop? Edit: also, conflating phones with "desktops" is just being glib and disingenous.
        viraptor 4y ago
        > Citation needed Literally the top results for US smartphone ownership. You can do it. > that those that make do with only phones would even want to purchase a tablet or laptop? That's the whole point - they don't need / want one. But given the services that everyone needs are moving online, everyone needs some level of internet access. This effectively moves windows users to Linux/Android as discussed upthread.
        actually_a_dog 4y ago
        I see. So you're not actually going to even try and answer the question? No evidence? Just "I'm going to conflate desktops and phones to make my point?"
  - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y ago
    Accidentally Android spies on you to the extent Microsoft couldn't even dream of in their evilest of dreams. And there is no way to root/control it to prevent that spying. Unlike Windows.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      > And there is no way to root/control it to prevent that spying. Can you explain what you mean here? How do AOSP ROMs subject themselves to Google's spying, much less the meticulously-designed privacy distributions?
    - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
      > Accidentally Android spies on you to the extent Microsoft couldn't even dream of in their evilest of dreams. And there is no way to root/control it to prevent that spying. Unlike Windows. https://www.grapheneos.org/ https://www.grapheneos.org/
      - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y ago
        I know, but nobody uses it, for a reason.
- Sebb767 4y ago
  I know a lot of people who use Tablets as their main driver and don't have a PC (or only use it for edge cases). Not even for ideological reasons, it just works for them. It's not universal, but it's not rare, either.
- betaby 4y ago
  Chromebooks I suppose. https://www.gsmarena.com/pc_and_tablets_see_strong_sales_performance_in_q1_2022_chromebook_sales_plummet_60_globally-news-54201.php https://www.gsmarena.com/pc_and_tablets_see_strong_sales_per...
  - _Algernon_ 4y ago
    They may run Android apps, but they are not Android devices. By that logic, my Linux machine is a Windows machine, because it has Wine/Proton.

lynndotpy 4y ago

This had been the opposite of my experience though. Maybe I got lucky with hardware, but I've never had issues with out-of-date drivers (outside of CUDA dependencies for research work) or having X or Gnome or whatnot break during an update. But, I need to use Windows at my employer, and it's horrible. I wish Windows were at a point where it was ready for development. Right now, the best dev setup is "install Linux in a VM" or "install this collection of incomplete ports/emulation/virtualization of Linux tools". With Proton for gaming and Electron for desktop especially, Linux on the desktop is way different than it was 10 years ago, let alone 20.

SCLeo 4y ago
My Nvidia driver literally just died last week or the week before. I had to reinstall it to make it work.
- doodlesdev 4y ago
  Just out of curiosity (as the website suggests lol), which distro were you using? I long left Nvidia as it's really a no-go on Linux but I noticed different distros had VASTLY different experiences with it. For instance Mint was very stable and simple to install drivers, but they were ofter outdated. Fedora was more work through rpm fusion but I also got a better experience and even managed to use Wayland. Some distros didn't even work with my setup. In my opinion the biggest advantage and problem of Linux is the fragmentation. Linux is a word that encompasses too many variations of many systems on top of different versions with different build options of a kernel. This is why I always choose to talk about a distribution instead of Linux itself, since the kernel is just a part of the system (insert GNU/Linux copypasta here). edit by ChatGPT, which apparently does not know about the copypasta): "Linux is actually GNU/Linux, or as I like to call it, the dynamic duo of the operating system world. The Linux kernel is like Batman, all tough and powerful, while the GNU tools and libraries are like Robin, always there to support and help out. Together, they make a unstoppable team that can take on any challenge. But, let's be real here, without the GNU tools and libraries, the Linux kernel would just be a confused and frustrated little kernel, wondering why it can't do anything useful. So, it's important to give credit where it's due and call the whole operating system GNU/Linux. Now, I know some of you might be thinking, "But wait, isn't Linux just for nerdy hackers and command line wizards?" Well, to those people I say, "Hold my beer, I'll show you how wrong you are." Because, these days, there are plenty of user-friendly Linux distributions that are perfect for everyday users. And, even better, most of them are free and open-source, so you can customize and tweak them to your heart's content. But, let's not forget about the elephant in the room: NVIDIA. Yes, I'm talking about that greedy, selfish, proprietary-loving company that just can't seem to get its act together when it comes to Linux support. I mean, come on guys, we're not asking for much, just some stable drivers that don't crash all the time and support the latest features. Is that too much to ask? Apparently it is, because NVIDIA just keeps letting Linux users down. So, in conclusion, if you want to join the awesome world of GNU/Linux, go for it! You won't regret it. And if you're already using GNU/Linux, give yourself a pat on the back and keep spreading the word. And, if you're using NVIDIA on Linux, well, good luck to you my friend, you're going to need it."

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]