4 ms·

Can you elaborate why you trust them over Apple?

xnx 4y ago
Probably a tie with Apple. I like that Apple isn't trying to sell my attention (yet), but I do prefer the higher level of openness from Google (Android, Chrome, open source contributions, etc.)
- brodock 4y ago
  Apple have their ads business already, it's a matter of time until profits from that business become big enough that shareholders demand changes. You can't have and Ads business and defend privacy at the same time
dathinab 4y ago
Maybe due to Apple acts in/wrt. China. People somehow end up thinking Apple cares deeply about their private but AFIK Apple only cares about privacy because it makes them money. Or more specifically the image it creates helps them in selling phones.But the moment the _long term_ cost outweighs the benefits they also have shown to bail. (I highlighted long terms because there had been case where short term it was more expensive because it e.g. involved legal cases, but especially this legal cases are a grate image profit form them as people will use it like "don't worry see they didn't even brake their security to help the police with <insert arrested very bad person>"). Now that doesn't mean Apple is bad to some degree it's a win win for the user: They get better privacy and Apple gets more users. But it doesn't mean you can fully trust Apple (or IMHO any Company).
- Spooky23 4y ago
  Google’s approach to China is the same realpolitik as Apple and privacy. Google was never going to get what it wanted/needed in China, so walking away was a pragmatic stance projected as an act of courage, etc. Google and Apple are actually more similar than one would thing. They are both leveraging their ownership of powerful segments, and they are both threatened by integrated software stacks. The big difference is that Google does creepy shit as a first party, and Apple outsources that to third parties. Google’s ad business was hurt by Facebook/Instagram and the dearb of the web. Apple’s existential threat is someone making WeChat for the US.
  - akimball 4y ago
    ...and his name is Musk.
  - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
    > Apple’s existential threat is someone making WeChat for the US. It's called Signal.
    - Spooky23 4y ago
      WeChat in China is like early 1990s era AOL or Prodigy for smartphones - it’s a vertical solution. Signal is an encrypted messenger that have bolted on some crypto bullshit. It’s just a nerd tool.
    - NamTaf 4y ago
      They are only vaguely similar in the remotest of ways and certainly not with respect to what the OP meant, so not really.
    - dathinab 4y ago
      no, if you look at relevance today Signal is not relevant. The technical excellency is lost on most users. The demography which cares about that excellency also has a large degree of people which don't want a future with a western variant of WeChat. Because it's basically only working with monopolization. And the fact that signal pushed some crypto is not helping it either. Firstly to many non technical people have lost too much money by either crypto scams or crashes. Then their crypto currency had some questionable technical details AFIK, but I forgot the details. Then regulatory capture of crypto currencies is guaranteed incoming in the coming years (to many scams, market manipulation, hidden high risk investment and usage for crimes especially money laundering) and as far I can tell their coin will likely not get a pass.
    - SahAssar 4y ago
      You fundamentally misunderstand what WeChat is.
  - jeff_carr 4y ago
- scarface74 4y ago
  Yes and trusting Google who convinced consumers to install what was suppose to be an internal iOS development certificate so they could track them isn’t a bridge too far?
- eternalban 4y ago
  You can't judge Apple's views based on this matter in the short term. Apple has strategic investments in China and can't just tell CPC to go pound sand. However, if Apple still is critically dependent on China in say 5 years, then it would be fair to look at the corporate response to Chinese demands and reach conclusions. If they truly care about privacy and the rest of it, they should be well into their transition plans to other locations about now. And industry expert would be able to tell if the effort, e.g. to use India instead, failed due to an insincere effort on the part of Apple (for PR), or the unpleasant fact that China is not a commodity resource pool, yet.
  - Shebanator 4y ago
    People always make this argument, for at least the last 10 years. Since Apple has not yet shown any real action towards reducing their dependency on China, why would it be any different 5 years from now?
    - SadTrombone 4y ago
      Apple has already started moving iPhone production to India/Vietnam with the goal of having 40-45% of their iPhones being produced there. It's far from a trivial move.
      - judge2020 4y ago
        For reference, this seems to have started with Airpods which have been (in part) assembled in Vietnam since 2020: https://redd.it/gokl90 https://redd.it/gokl90
        smoldesu 4y ago
        Which means it took them over a decade to start moving their assembly lines out of China. The GP comment still stands, Apple clearly had no urgent interest in ending their relationship with China. A cynic might even suggest that they're only doing it now that the geopolitical tensions are favoring the US...
- theshrike79 4y ago
  I personally trust Apple, because for them _I_ am the customer. They get their money from selling devices and software for said devices. Thus they want to keep _me_ happy. Ad income is a rounding error in their yearly revenue. Google is an ad company with a side business in making hardware, software and web services. Advertisers are their clients, they do everything they can to keep the advertisers happy. ...and the one big thing that keeps ad people happy is knowing as much as possible about their customers, which is completely antithetical to user privacy.

xnx 4y ago

Probably a tie with Apple. I like that Apple isn't trying to sell my attention (yet), but I do prefer the higher level of openness from Google (Android, Chrome, open source contributions, etc.)

brodock 4y ago
Apple have their ads business already, it's a matter of time until profits from that business become big enough that shareholders demand changes. You can't have and Ads business and defend privacy at the same time

dathinab 4y ago

Maybe due to Apple acts in/wrt. China. People somehow end up thinking Apple cares deeply about their private but AFIK Apple only cares about privacy because it makes them money. Or more specifically the image it creates helps them in selling phones.But the moment the _long term_ cost outweighs the benefits they also have shown to bail. (I highlighted long terms because there had been case where short term it was more expensive because it e.g. involved legal cases, but especially this legal cases are a grate image profit form them as people will use it like "don't worry see they didn't even brake their security to help the police with <insert arrested very bad person>"). Now that doesn't mean Apple is bad to some degree it's a win win for the user: They get better privacy and Apple gets more users. But it doesn't mean you can fully trust Apple (or IMHO any Company).

Spooky23 4y ago
Google’s approach to China is the same realpolitik as Apple and privacy. Google was never going to get what it wanted/needed in China, so walking away was a pragmatic stance projected as an act of courage, etc. Google and Apple are actually more similar than one would thing. They are both leveraging their ownership of powerful segments, and they are both threatened by integrated software stacks. The big difference is that Google does creepy shit as a first party, and Apple outsources that to third parties. Google’s ad business was hurt by Facebook/Instagram and the dearb of the web. Apple’s existential threat is someone making WeChat for the US.
- akimball 4y ago
  ...and his name is Musk.
- ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
  > Apple’s existential threat is someone making WeChat for the US. It's called Signal.
  - Spooky23 4y ago
    WeChat in China is like early 1990s era AOL or Prodigy for smartphones - it’s a vertical solution. Signal is an encrypted messenger that have bolted on some crypto bullshit. It’s just a nerd tool.
  - NamTaf 4y ago
    They are only vaguely similar in the remotest of ways and certainly not with respect to what the OP meant, so not really.
  - dathinab 4y ago
    no, if you look at relevance today Signal is not relevant. The technical excellency is lost on most users. The demography which cares about that excellency also has a large degree of people which don't want a future with a western variant of WeChat. Because it's basically only working with monopolization. And the fact that signal pushed some crypto is not helping it either. Firstly to many non technical people have lost too much money by either crypto scams or crashes. Then their crypto currency had some questionable technical details AFIK, but I forgot the details. Then regulatory capture of crypto currencies is guaranteed incoming in the coming years (to many scams, market manipulation, hidden high risk investment and usage for crimes especially money laundering) and as far I can tell their coin will likely not get a pass.
  - SahAssar 4y ago
    You fundamentally misunderstand what WeChat is.
- jeff_carr 4y ago
scarface74 4y ago
Yes and trusting Google who convinced consumers to install what was suppose to be an internal iOS development certificate so they could track them isn’t a bridge too far?
eternalban 4y ago
You can't judge Apple's views based on this matter in the short term. Apple has strategic investments in China and can't just tell CPC to go pound sand. However, if Apple still is critically dependent on China in say 5 years, then it would be fair to look at the corporate response to Chinese demands and reach conclusions. If they truly care about privacy and the rest of it, they should be well into their transition plans to other locations about now. And industry expert would be able to tell if the effort, e.g. to use India instead, failed due to an insincere effort on the part of Apple (for PR), or the unpleasant fact that China is not a commodity resource pool, yet.
- Shebanator 4y ago
  People always make this argument, for at least the last 10 years. Since Apple has not yet shown any real action towards reducing their dependency on China, why would it be any different 5 years from now?
  - SadTrombone 4y ago
    Apple has already started moving iPhone production to India/Vietnam with the goal of having 40-45% of their iPhones being produced there. It's far from a trivial move.
    - judge2020 4y ago
      For reference, this seems to have started with Airpods which have been (in part) assembled in Vietnam since 2020: https://redd.it/gokl90 https://redd.it/gokl90
      - smoldesu 4y ago
        Which means it took them over a decade to start moving their assembly lines out of China. The GP comment still stands, Apple clearly had no urgent interest in ending their relationship with China. A cynic might even suggest that they're only doing it now that the geopolitical tensions are favoring the US...
theshrike79 4y ago
I personally trust Apple, because for them _I_ am the customer. They get their money from selling devices and software for said devices. Thus they want to keep _me_ happy. Ad income is a rounding error in their yearly revenue. Google is an ad company with a side business in making hardware, software and web services. Advertisers are their clients, they do everything they can to keep the advertisers happy. ...and the one big thing that keeps ad people happy is knowing as much as possible about their customers, which is completely antithetical to user privacy.