4 ms·
Most of this is unconscious for the general population, the consequence of mimicry + social cues + emotional rewards. The person who shows up to Pizza Hut on a
by nostrademons 4y ago
Most of this is unconscious for the general population, the consequence of mimicry + social cues + emotional rewards. The person who shows up to Pizza Hut on a bicycle isn't thinking about social status consciously. Instead, they get slightly pitying looks from coworkers, which make them feel slightly inferior and ashamed, which makes them not do it again. The top executive who shows up on a bicycle gets no such feedback, and so they keep doing it.
You see "accidental countersignaling" from people who are generally oblivious to social cues, like folks with Aspergers or recent immigrants to a country, because the subtle feedback from other people doesn't register for them. These people tend to exist apart from the social reality and inhabit only economic and physical reality.
Articles (and comments) like this one are describing what's going on, not prescribing it. Basically nobody goes into a social situation thinking "How can I raise my social status?" The people who do come off as phonies, because the emotions involved operate very subtly and quickly and if it's not unconscious it's apparent to other people. But you can analyze the situation after the fact and describe what's going on, as well as try to train your unconscious offline to have better responses to the situation you were in.
- sanderjd 4y ago> Instead, they get slightly pitying looks from coworkers, which make them feel slightly inferior and ashamed, which makes them not do it again. No they don't! Is my point. This is almost entirely a story made up by this bizarro world of smart people who think themselves into circles (and aren't working at pizza hut). Nobody cares how someone gets themselves to their job at pizza hut; the other people working there aren't thinking about this, the person riding the bike there isn't thinking about this. This is just people like us with too much time on our hands to write substacks and debate silly things on internet message boards constructing castles in the sky. > Articles (and comments) like this one are describing what's going on, not prescribing it. I recognize that it is attempting to describe what's going on. I am saying that I think it is failing to accurately describe what's going on.
- dilap 4y agoCheck out the song "No Scrubs" by TLC for another angle on the same topic. It's a real phenomenon, not just something made up by nerds on substack. Some people are blissfully checked out enough from social competition dynamics that they don't notice it.
- bnralt 4y agoYeah. Off the top of my head I can think two pieces of popular media - The 40 Year Old Virgin and Cobra Kai - that had a scene where a guy lucks out and meets an attractive woman, asks her out on a date, the woman asks when he'll pick her up, he awkwardly tells her he has a bike and not a car, she makes a "what the hell?!" expression and then says how she guesses she'll be the one picking him up. We can say that society exaggerates the importance of some of these things, or that they're less of an issue in certain circles. Or that it's easy to psyche yourself out about those issues and miss many of the opportunities around you. All true. But the issues actually exist, and aren't just from the imagination of a small group of people that overthink things.
- nkurz 4y agoEqually, it's possible to go even further in the "bicycle" direction to end up ahead of those with cars. Here's a delightful example: Rubberbandits "Horse Outside" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljPFZrRD3J8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljPFZrRD3J8 (NSFW at one point if you are listening closely and can understand the Irish accent, but unlikely to actually offend). The beginning might be boring, but it's short, so stick with it.
- zach_garwood 4y agoRiding your bike to work (what OP is talking about) and not having a car to pick up your date (what TLC were singing about) are two pretty different things. Coworkers don't care how you get to work. Dates care bacause they don't want to have to take the bus home afterwards.
- sanderjd 4y agoHaha this is the only illuminating reply so far :)
- abbadadda 4y agoYou seem to be in denial that this phenomenon exists. I’d suggest reading _The Moral Animal: Why We Are the Way We Are._ Quite insightful. Status matters more than you’re letting on, and the perception of it is subconscious. No one (hopefully) is actively making an effort to look down on someone for riding their bike to their job at Pizza Hut - but many subtle things get registered by humans around us every day whether you or they are aware of it.
- JanSt 4y agoThank god I‘m not living in a city with money as a first value. People would look down on you here for taking a car to your job if you can use a bike.
- brewdad 4y agoWhich is the exact same phenomenon with the signals reversed.
- JanSt 4y agoSo cycling is high-status because most people do it? I can assure you that has nothing to do with high-status. You just can‘t break down everything into status-games.
- abbadadda 4y agoMissed the point by a mile.
- JanSt 4y agoBecause?
- sanderjd 4y agoFrom my perspective, it looks like you are in denial that this phenomenon doesn't exist. (Actually what I would say is weaker than that: what I think is not that stuff like this isn't a thing at all, but that it is ridiculously overblown by clever people who find it interesting to have this weird perspective on human nature.)
- ivalm 4y ago> The person who shows up to Pizza Hut on a bicycle isn't thinking about social status consciously. Instead, they get slightly pitying looks from coworkers, which make them feel slightly inferior and ashamed, which makes them not do it again This is not how social dynamic at Pizza Hut works.
- zach_garwood 4y agoYeah, I feel like some of these commenters have never worked a minumum wage job in their lives.
- GoodbyeMrChips 4y ago