4 ms·

500k or 500m in renovations will increase the value of the property. A car is worth 20% less the day you drive it off of the lot and keeps losing value. Hav

by ipaddr 4y ago

500k or 500m in renovations will increase the value of the property. A car is worth 20% less the day you drive it off of the lot and keeps losing value. Having freezer space can save you thousands of dollars in food.

ejb999 4y ago
of course it will, but spending 500K in remodeling, doesn't mean the house is necessarily going to be worth 500K more - it might, it might not.
steveBK123 4y ago
Cars are absolutely depreciating assets. However a $70k car generally has a much better set of class leading accident avoidance & safety features than a $25k car which will generally be minimum legally required for compliance. A new car has a much different safety profile than a 10 or 20 year old car. Watching crash videos on YouTube is very illuminating as to how far we've come even versus a car from 2000. Modern advanced cars will warn you about rear & front cross traffic, actively keep you from driving off the road if you fall asleep, emergency brake for obstacles, keep you from changing lanes into a car in your blind spot, and many other things that were pretty unheard of 10-20 years ago. My car even flashes lights and beeps at me if I am opening the door and it detects oncoming cars or bikes. A $500k renovation of a home is usually financed and adds less than the $500k of value to the resale price to the homes (lets say, $400k to be generous), while costing north of $750k by the time all the payments are made. So $100-350k of waste, conservatively.
- kens 4y ago
  The crash videos of old vs new cars are very interesting (and scary). Especially 1959 Bel Air vs 2009 Malibu. In the older car, you smash into the dashboard and then the passenger compartment collapses and crushes you. In the new car, you hit the airbag. Of course you don't expect much from 1959, but even 1992 Nissan vs 2016 Nissan is a huge difference in survivability. I highly recommend the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TikJC0x65X0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TikJC0x65X0
  - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
    You will never see a matchup that makes the old car look "eh, good enough" because the incentive for the kinds of organizations doing these kinds of tests is to showcase their work. If they produced content downplaying their work heads would roll.
    - steveBK123 4y ago
      Eh, a bit conspirational much. There have been dramatic improvements in car safety in each of the last few decades. Accidents that used to be death sentences are now dust yourself off and walk away. Actuarially as well, the value of a human life is so high that a few $1000 in safety options on a car for marginal increases in safety will almost always be worth it. https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state... Arguably the other thing you can do is live in a state with a 55~65mph max speed limit. Looking at the state level auto fatalities stats is pretty striking how much lower fatality rates are in the low limit / high traffic (and therefore low speed) northeast .. whether you measure per capita or per mile driven. The most interesting but hard to measure metric would be per vehicle hour, I would suggest. Commutes are driven more by time than distance, and in congested areas people commute shorter distances at lower speed vs some of the super commutes people do at 75mph+. You can see this sort of reflected in the stats where the per capita fatality rates are 1/3 to 1/2 the level of the Deep South, however on a per-mile basis closer to 2/3. You can also see that the northeastern per-capita miles driven is 1/2 ..
      - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
        I'm not being conspirational. You can F right off with that implication. Follow the incentives. You will NEVER see them show you the difference between like a 93 and 94 of a given model (tons of vehicles went from airbags optional to airbags standard over that year so that's basically what you'd be testing) because a single variable or low variable test doesn't get them the DARE-esque messaging and "look how far we've come" back patting that these sorts of old vs new comparisons are meant for. Watching a dummmy face plant into the steering wheel of a 93 OJ bronco and then do the same thing into the airbag of a 94 (to just pick one example) just doesn't scratch those itches the same way comparing vehicles that are half a dozen major engineering revisions and 20yr of model bloat apart from each other. >Arguably the other thing you can do is live in a state with a 55~65mph max speed limit. Eh, I think you're reading too much into it. Speed limits don't reflect reality, anyone from the northeast will tell you that limited access highway speeds are predicated on traffic, weather and road conditions and 80mph middle lane speeds aren't uncommon pre and post commuting "hour" (in sarcasm quotes for obvious reasons). Reducing potential for high speed traffic conflicts probably matters a lot more than you're giving it credit for. You almost never have cross roads just dumping traffic onto a state highway where traffic goes 70+ in the northeast. This is pretty standard once you get out of the beltway in the more rural states and account for a lot of avoidable crashes.
- Alex3917 4y ago
  > However a $70k car generally has a much better set of class leading accident avoidance & safety features than a $25k car which will generally be minimum legally required for compliance. That’s empirically false. Toyota and Subaru both make 25k cars with vastly better active driver assistance features than Tesla, as shown by every independent test that’s ever been done.
  - steveBK123 4y ago
    Yeah I’m not gonna put Tesla on a pedestal for class leading active driver assist by any measure lol. Subaru specifically punches above their weight in terms of safety per dollar and given their close relationship with Toyota I could see them being similar.
    - steveBK123 4y ago
      And to my point - the $25k Subaru with all the option stay be a historical memory or marketing fallacy. If you open up the pricing tool on the cheapest Subaru wagon/SUV model, the Crosstek, and want all the active driver assist options, you quickly end up at the $30k top-tier "Limited" spec which is $31k after fees, and if you add any functional options/accessories (GPS nav, auto dim mirror, etc) is more like $35k. Similarly their most famous model, the Outback may START at $28k, but if you want the trim with all the safety options, thats the $41k Touring. You can knock a few of the safety options off by going with the Limited for $36k (and add a few of the safety features on optionally to end up at $39k). And I'm not even including markups, which dealers spent the last 2 years adding. Personally my mom spent 6 months hunting down a Subaru dealer who would sell her a car at sticker price after having her old one totaled in an accident. Then another 2 months waiting for it to arrive. This is probably over now, but again the $25k car is so rare as to almost be mythical.
lmm 4y ago
> A car is worth 20% less the day you drive it off of the lot and keeps losing value. But so does a kitchen rennovation. > Having freezer space can save you thousands of dollars in food. It can, if you use it that way. How many of the people buying these expensive kitches do?

by ipaddr 4y ago

ejb999 4y ago

of course it will, but spending 500K in remodeling, doesn't mean the house is necessarily going to be worth 500K more - it might, it might not.

steveBK123 4y ago

Cars are absolutely depreciating assets. However a $70k car generally has a much better set of class leading accident avoidance & safety features than a $25k car which will generally be minimum legally required for compliance. A new car has a much different safety profile than a 10 or 20 year old car. Watching crash videos on YouTube is very illuminating as to how far we've come even versus a car from 2000. Modern advanced cars will warn you about rear & front cross traffic, actively keep you from driving off the road if you fall asleep, emergency brake for obstacles, keep you from changing lanes into a car in your blind spot, and many other things that were pretty unheard of 10-20 years ago. My car even flashes lights and beeps at me if I am opening the door and it detects oncoming cars or bikes. A $500k renovation of a home is usually financed and adds less than the $500k of value to the resale price to the homes (lets say, $400k to be generous), while costing north of $750k by the time all the payments are made. So $100-350k of waste, conservatively.

kens 4y ago
The crash videos of old vs new cars are very interesting (and scary). Especially 1959 Bel Air vs 2009 Malibu. In the older car, you smash into the dashboard and then the passenger compartment collapses and crushes you. In the new car, you hit the airbag. Of course you don't expect much from 1959, but even 1992 Nissan vs 2016 Nissan is a huge difference in survivability. I highly recommend the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TikJC0x65X0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TikJC0x65X0
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  You will never see a matchup that makes the old car look "eh, good enough" because the incentive for the kinds of organizations doing these kinds of tests is to showcase their work. If they produced content downplaying their work heads would roll.
  - steveBK123 4y ago
    Eh, a bit conspirational much. There have been dramatic improvements in car safety in each of the last few decades. Accidents that used to be death sentences are now dust yourself off and walk away. Actuarially as well, the value of a human life is so high that a few $1000 in safety options on a car for marginal increases in safety will almost always be worth it. https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state... Arguably the other thing you can do is live in a state with a 55~65mph max speed limit. Looking at the state level auto fatalities stats is pretty striking how much lower fatality rates are in the low limit / high traffic (and therefore low speed) northeast .. whether you measure per capita or per mile driven. The most interesting but hard to measure metric would be per vehicle hour, I would suggest. Commutes are driven more by time than distance, and in congested areas people commute shorter distances at lower speed vs some of the super commutes people do at 75mph+. You can see this sort of reflected in the stats where the per capita fatality rates are 1/3 to 1/2 the level of the Deep South, however on a per-mile basis closer to 2/3. You can also see that the northeastern per-capita miles driven is 1/2 ..
    - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
      I'm not being conspirational. You can F right off with that implication. Follow the incentives. You will NEVER see them show you the difference between like a 93 and 94 of a given model (tons of vehicles went from airbags optional to airbags standard over that year so that's basically what you'd be testing) because a single variable or low variable test doesn't get them the DARE-esque messaging and "look how far we've come" back patting that these sorts of old vs new comparisons are meant for. Watching a dummmy face plant into the steering wheel of a 93 OJ bronco and then do the same thing into the airbag of a 94 (to just pick one example) just doesn't scratch those itches the same way comparing vehicles that are half a dozen major engineering revisions and 20yr of model bloat apart from each other. >Arguably the other thing you can do is live in a state with a 55~65mph max speed limit. Eh, I think you're reading too much into it. Speed limits don't reflect reality, anyone from the northeast will tell you that limited access highway speeds are predicated on traffic, weather and road conditions and 80mph middle lane speeds aren't uncommon pre and post commuting "hour" (in sarcasm quotes for obvious reasons). Reducing potential for high speed traffic conflicts probably matters a lot more than you're giving it credit for. You almost never have cross roads just dumping traffic onto a state highway where traffic goes 70+ in the northeast. This is pretty standard once you get out of the beltway in the more rural states and account for a lot of avoidable crashes.
Alex3917 4y ago
> However a $70k car generally has a much better set of class leading accident avoidance & safety features than a $25k car which will generally be minimum legally required for compliance. That’s empirically false. Toyota and Subaru both make 25k cars with vastly better active driver assistance features than Tesla, as shown by every independent test that’s ever been done.
- steveBK123 4y ago
  Yeah I’m not gonna put Tesla on a pedestal for class leading active driver assist by any measure lol. Subaru specifically punches above their weight in terms of safety per dollar and given their close relationship with Toyota I could see them being similar.
  - steveBK123 4y ago
    And to my point - the $25k Subaru with all the option stay be a historical memory or marketing fallacy. If you open up the pricing tool on the cheapest Subaru wagon/SUV model, the Crosstek, and want all the active driver assist options, you quickly end up at the $30k top-tier "Limited" spec which is $31k after fees, and if you add any functional options/accessories (GPS nav, auto dim mirror, etc) is more like $35k. Similarly their most famous model, the Outback may START at $28k, but if you want the trim with all the safety options, thats the $41k Touring. You can knock a few of the safety options off by going with the Limited for $36k (and add a few of the safety features on optionally to end up at $39k). And I'm not even including markups, which dealers spent the last 2 years adding. Personally my mom spent 6 months hunting down a Subaru dealer who would sell her a car at sticker price after having her old one totaled in an accident. Then another 2 months waiting for it to arrive. This is probably over now, but again the $25k car is so rare as to almost be mythical.

lmm 4y ago

> A car is worth 20% less the day you drive it off of the lot and keeps losing value. But so does a kitchen rennovation. > Having freezer space can save you thousands of dollars in food. It can, if you use it that way. How many of the people buying these expensive kitches do?