6 ms·

It might be legal to gamble online soon

55 points by gdhillon 15y ago

suking 15y ago
Step 1: Get rid of offshore casino sites Step 2: Make gambling legal and tax Step 3: Profit
- asdkl234890 15y ago
  The Internet after SOPA: Government approved liquor sales and gambling, no unauthorized websites.
YuriNiyazov 15y ago
I don't undertand how the article, which mostly talks about state lotteries, implies anything about online poker.
- arn 15y ago
  from the article: "Until now, the department held that online gambling in all forms was illegal under the Wire Act of 1961, which bars wagers via telecommunications that cross state lines or international borders. The new interpretation, by the department's Office of Legal Counsel, said the Wire Act applies only to bets on a "sporting event or contest," not to a state's use of the Internet to sell lottery tickets to adults within its borders or abroad." - basically, they restricted the interpretation of the Wire Act to be specific to sports gambling, and nothing else (such as poker)
joeycfan 15y ago
The fact that the American govt. ever felt it was entitled to tell grownups they can't make bets, is intrinsically wrong.
wallawe 15y ago
Man, a second poker boom would be amazing...
joshuahedlund 15y ago
Prohibiting voluntary victimless activities of the physical kind didn't even work very well in the 20th century. The technological kind in the 21st century? Downright impossible. It just moves outside your borders - and outside your ability to tax. Unless I'm ignorant of some industry-specific facts I think this would be a win-win for everybody (except, as always, the poor souls that willingly throw their money away...) Edit: Good point by cellis below. Still, I think legalizing activities via connected interests is progress compared to fake illegalizing that exists currently.
- cellis 15y ago
  Win-win for the politically connected oligopolies ( tribes, states, vegas ). Equation stays lose-lose for everyone else ( startups, customers ). And of course there is still UIGEA. So, don't get your hopes up.
  - WarDekar 15y ago
    The UIGEA no longer applies to internet poker because internet poker is no longer unlawful (the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act).
    - heyitsnick 15y ago
      Tell that to Absolute Poker exec Brent Beckley who just pleaded guilty to charges that included violations of UIGEA edit: And this clarification of the Wire Act changes nothing as to the legality of online poker.
  - Canada 15y ago
    Well said. It's disgusting.
Zakharov 15y ago
Isn't online poker a "contest"?
jiganti 15y ago
Yes, this is finally happening. The fact that states like Nevada and California are pushing for intra-state legislation will probably make the federal government scurry to pass a bill (likely HR2366, which everyone speculated would pass by Thanksgiving of this year). While sites like PartyPoker could hypothetically start allowing Americans to play right now, they aren't going to ruin their chance to tap into the market without getting formal licenses, whether that happens at a state or federal level. The brick and mortar casinos will be the first candidates to get licenses to run real money sites regardless, and guys like myself will have to pull some strings to get our little platforms into the market. But hey, there's always the Zynga poker business model (sell X play chips for $Y; no prizes for winning aside from being able to play in "high stakes" play money games) to tide us over until then. The first decade of the twenty-first century was the "wild west" of online poker. A number of times I've had my bankrolls on various sites disappear as they shut down and run with the money- similar to getting robbed at gunpoint in a high stakes showdown in the days of the Texas road gamblers, or Mississippi riverboat poker games. We're headed for a safe, regulated form of the American pastime, and although it will likely be taxed viciously, there is a very good chance that we'll see another poker boom like that started when Chris Moneymaker won the main event of the 2003 World Series of Poker.
heyitsnick 15y ago
Most of the mainstream media is sadly over-stating this. Although this is welcome clarification on the Wire Act, online gambling still falls under UIGEA and IGBA laws. The Black Friday indictments did not make use of the Wire Act specifically because of the ambiguity. For further reading from the online poker media: http://pokerfuse.com/news/law-legislation/department-justice-shifts-stance-wire-act-replies-reidkyl-letter/ http://pokerfuse.com/news/law-legislation/department-justice... http://craakker.blogspot.com/2011/12/why-doj-wire-act-opinion-is-no-big-deal.html http://craakker.blogspot.com/2011/12/why-doj-wire-act-opinio...
helloandgoodbye 15y ago
This was always going to happen. It was only banned in the first place to clear the field of foreign companies that dominated the market. So now - 6 years later - american companies have finally caught up, it's time to repeal the ban. Side note: I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing. I mean if someone's going to profit off the misery and suffering of addicts, it might as well be their fellow countrymen. EDIT: re:"it was only banned" : I know it was technically illegal, however I suspect that wouldn't have been an issue if it was a field dominated by american companies.
- RudySF 15y ago
  Interesting point. If / when online poker is legal do you think off-shore companies like PokerStars will move their operations to the US? Will that be part of the deal to allow US players back to their gaming platforms? As a side note, I hope this continues to move forward. I would gladly pay taxes on my poker winnings and receive checks from legitimate banks as opposed to the KBG Bank of Canada (or something like that) where I used to get my checks from in the past.
  - helloandgoodbye 15y ago
    Very possible. Taxes have to be collected and money laundering legislation must be enforceable - not to mention all the "protective" internet legislation you guys seem to be getting recently... ...!

55 points by gdhillon 15y ago

suking 15y ago

Step 1: Get rid of offshore casino sites Step 2: Make gambling legal and tax Step 3: Profit

asdkl234890 15y ago
The Internet after SOPA: Government approved liquor sales and gambling, no unauthorized websites.

YuriNiyazov 15y ago

I don't undertand how the article, which mostly talks about state lotteries, implies anything about online poker.

arn 15y ago
from the article: "Until now, the department held that online gambling in all forms was illegal under the Wire Act of 1961, which bars wagers via telecommunications that cross state lines or international borders. The new interpretation, by the department's Office of Legal Counsel, said the Wire Act applies only to bets on a "sporting event or contest," not to a state's use of the Internet to sell lottery tickets to adults within its borders or abroad." - basically, they restricted the interpretation of the Wire Act to be specific to sports gambling, and nothing else (such as poker)

joeycfan 15y ago

The fact that the American govt. ever felt it was entitled to tell grownups they can't make bets, is intrinsically wrong.

wallawe 15y ago

Man, a second poker boom would be amazing...

joshuahedlund 15y ago

Prohibiting voluntary victimless activities of the physical kind didn't even work very well in the 20th century. The technological kind in the 21st century? Downright impossible. It just moves outside your borders - and outside your ability to tax. Unless I'm ignorant of some industry-specific facts I think this would be a win-win for everybody (except, as always, the poor souls that willingly throw their money away...) Edit: Good point by cellis below. Still, I think legalizing activities via connected interests is progress compared to fake illegalizing that exists currently.

cellis 15y ago
Win-win for the politically connected oligopolies ( tribes, states, vegas ). Equation stays lose-lose for everyone else ( startups, customers ). And of course there is still UIGEA. So, don't get your hopes up.
- WarDekar 15y ago
  The UIGEA no longer applies to internet poker because internet poker is no longer unlawful (the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act).
  - heyitsnick 15y ago
    Tell that to Absolute Poker exec Brent Beckley who just pleaded guilty to charges that included violations of UIGEA edit: And this clarification of the Wire Act changes nothing as to the legality of online poker.
- Canada 15y ago
  Well said. It's disgusting.

Zakharov 15y ago

Isn't online poker a "contest"?

jiganti 15y ago

Yes, this is finally happening. The fact that states like Nevada and California are pushing for intra-state legislation will probably make the federal government scurry to pass a bill (likely HR2366, which everyone speculated would pass by Thanksgiving of this year). While sites like PartyPoker could hypothetically start allowing Americans to play right now, they aren't going to ruin their chance to tap into the market without getting formal licenses, whether that happens at a state or federal level. The brick and mortar casinos will be the first candidates to get licenses to run real money sites regardless, and guys like myself will have to pull some strings to get our little platforms into the market. But hey, there's always the Zynga poker business model (sell X play chips for $Y; no prizes for winning aside from being able to play in "high stakes" play money games) to tide us over until then. The first decade of the twenty-first century was the "wild west" of online poker. A number of times I've had my bankrolls on various sites disappear as they shut down and run with the money- similar to getting robbed at gunpoint in a high stakes showdown in the days of the Texas road gamblers, or Mississippi riverboat poker games. We're headed for a safe, regulated form of the American pastime, and although it will likely be taxed viciously, there is a very good chance that we'll see another poker boom like that started when Chris Moneymaker won the main event of the 2003 World Series of Poker.

heyitsnick 15y ago

Most of the mainstream media is sadly over-stating this. Although this is welcome clarification on the Wire Act, online gambling still falls under UIGEA and IGBA laws. The Black Friday indictments did not make use of the Wire Act specifically because of the ambiguity. For further reading from the online poker media: http://pokerfuse.com/news/law-legislation/department-justice-shifts-stance-wire-act-replies-reidkyl-letter/ http://pokerfuse.com/news/law-legislation/department-justice... http://craakker.blogspot.com/2011/12/why-doj-wire-act-opinion-is-no-big-deal.html http://craakker.blogspot.com/2011/12/why-doj-wire-act-opinio...

helloandgoodbye 15y ago

This was always going to happen. It was only banned in the first place to clear the field of foreign companies that dominated the market. So now - 6 years later - american companies have finally caught up, it's time to repeal the ban. Side note: I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing. I mean if someone's going to profit off the misery and suffering of addicts, it might as well be their fellow countrymen. EDIT: re:"it was only banned" : I know it was technically illegal, however I suspect that wouldn't have been an issue if it was a field dominated by american companies.

RudySF 15y ago
Interesting point. If / when online poker is legal do you think off-shore companies like PokerStars will move their operations to the US? Will that be part of the deal to allow US players back to their gaming platforms? As a side note, I hope this continues to move forward. I would gladly pay taxes on my poker winnings and receive checks from legitimate banks as opposed to the KBG Bank of Canada (or something like that) where I used to get my checks from in the past.
- helloandgoodbye 15y ago
  Very possible. Taxes have to be collected and money laundering legislation must be enforceable - not to mention all the "protective" internet legislation you guys seem to be getting recently... ...!