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That’s been thoroughly debunked for years. https://news.northeastern.edu/2019/05/15/northeastern-university-researchers-find-little-evidence-for-broken-windows

That’s been thoroughly debunked for years. https://news.northeastern.edu/2019/05/15/northeastern-university-researchers-find-little-evidence-for-broken-windows-theory-say-neighborhood-disorder-doesnt-cause-crime/ https://news.northeastern.edu/2019/05/15/northeastern-univer...

joemazerino 4y ago
Rather than allowing nerd academics sitting in ivory towers to control our conversation look outside. Have you lived in a city with high crime rates? I have and my friends/family yearn for the return of days to policing neighbourhoods.
- scarface74 4y ago
  Have you been a minority living in a neighborhood where “you don’t look like you belong”? I had a house built in the most affluent county in the metro area and I make over twice the median income of the area - in GA - thanks to the fact that I work remotely for $BigTech. My family constantly were looked at suspiciously. The county was an infamous “sun down town” as late as the 80s. https://kaltura.uga.edu/media/t/1_958u30nt/86446941 https://kaltura.uga.edu/media/t/1_958u30nt/86446941 It’s not as bad now as people have migrated in from the north and the county as grown. But those folks are still there.
jvanderbot 4y ago
There's two things. Maybe it doesn't prevent further crime as well as targeted saturation does, but it sure is nice when the police show up when they are called. Most research focuses on the first but the second is what GP was referring to.
- scarface74 4y ago
  “targeted saturation” was no more than “harass minorities and the homeless”. https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-broken-windows-legal-aid-analysis-racial-breakdown-quality-of-life-20220329-wqysuc2hlvagxdnub5llop6k2u-story.html https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-broken-win...
  - joemazerino 4y ago
    Legal aid society -- the least worthy source when it comes to policing.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      “Creator of 'Broken Windows' Policing Thought it May Lead to Racial Problems” https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/takeaway/segments/revisiting-broken-windows-theory https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/takeaway/segments/revis... https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/broken-windows-theory-poor-policing-ferguson-kelling-121268 https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/broken-windo...
      - jvanderbot 4y ago
        Again we're talking about two different things. Target saturation vs broken windows. Pretty different
        scarface74 4y ago
        Yes I’m sure if the police used “targeted saturation” in my neighborhood where in the entire county it’s only 3% Black, neither me or more likely my 6 foot 5 20 year old step son would be targeted for “looking suspicious”. For reference, it’s the most affluent county in GA (not saying much in the grand scheme of things) and I work remotely at $BigTech. So while I make over twice the median household income for the area, we still get looked at suspiciously.
        jvanderbot 4y ago
        I hear you, and that sucks. Targeted saturation is exactly that IF you live in an area with lots of crime: they look for areas where crime concentrates and do lots of extra stops and extra police presence. If you don't live in an area with lots of crime, it's not targeted and they're doing something else, probably not constructive.

joemazerino 4y ago

Rather than allowing nerd academics sitting in ivory towers to control our conversation look outside. Have you lived in a city with high crime rates? I have and my friends/family yearn for the return of days to policing neighbourhoods.

scarface74 4y ago
Have you been a minority living in a neighborhood where “you don’t look like you belong”? I had a house built in the most affluent county in the metro area and I make over twice the median income of the area - in GA - thanks to the fact that I work remotely for $BigTech. My family constantly were looked at suspiciously. The county was an infamous “sun down town” as late as the 80s. https://kaltura.uga.edu/media/t/1_958u30nt/86446941 https://kaltura.uga.edu/media/t/1_958u30nt/86446941 It’s not as bad now as people have migrated in from the north and the county as grown. But those folks are still there.

jvanderbot 4y ago

There's two things. Maybe it doesn't prevent further crime as well as targeted saturation does, but it sure is nice when the police show up when they are called. Most research focuses on the first but the second is what GP was referring to.

scarface74 4y ago
“targeted saturation” was no more than “harass minorities and the homeless”. https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-broken-windows-legal-aid-analysis-racial-breakdown-quality-of-life-20220329-wqysuc2hlvagxdnub5llop6k2u-story.html https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-broken-win...
- joemazerino 4y ago
  Legal aid society -- the least worthy source when it comes to policing.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    “Creator of 'Broken Windows' Policing Thought it May Lead to Racial Problems” https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/takeaway/segments/revisiting-broken-windows-theory https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/takeaway/segments/revis... https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/broken-windows-theory-poor-policing-ferguson-kelling-121268 https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/broken-windo...
    - jvanderbot 4y ago
      Again we're talking about two different things. Target saturation vs broken windows. Pretty different
      - scarface74 4y ago
        Yes I’m sure if the police used “targeted saturation” in my neighborhood where in the entire county it’s only 3% Black, neither me or more likely my 6 foot 5 20 year old step son would be targeted for “looking suspicious”. For reference, it’s the most affluent county in GA (not saying much in the grand scheme of things) and I work remotely at $BigTech. So while I make over twice the median household income for the area, we still get looked at suspiciously.
        jvanderbot 4y ago
        I hear you, and that sucks. Targeted saturation is exactly that IF you live in an area with lots of crime: they look for areas where crime concentrates and do lots of extra stops and extra police presence. If you don't live in an area with lots of crime, it's not targeted and they're doing something else, probably not constructive.