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US imports of Russian enriched uranium, platina, cobalt... are now highest in history. Please leave empty moralising out of this. I am paying for programming s

US imports of Russian enriched uranium, platina, cobalt... are now highest in history. Please leave empty moralising out of this. I am paying for programming services. Traditional banking system is unreliable, so I use crypto. Nothing illegal or unethical!

usr1106 4y ago
I claim even driving a car is unethical. Russia earns more money from energy imports now than before the war. Price is a function of supply and demand. Supply is difficult to change and certainly not in an ethical way. So everone maintaining demand supports the war, whether they want or not. An action does not get ethical because others are worse. It's good for your conscience noting others are worse, I don't deny that. (And I did not say that I don't do the same. I recently had to take a plane. It was unethical to make Russia's war budget grow a tiny bit by doing so, but I thought staying at home would have had other morally unpleasant consequences.)
- throw6383878 4y ago
  - hunter-gatherer 4y ago
    I don't think op is taking about CO2 emissions, rather that Russia exports a lot of fuel. But even if op is taking about CO2, diving a car and breathing aren't that comparable. Exhaling CO2 is part of the active CO2 cycle and doesn't really contribute to climate change. Digging up locked carbon from the ground and burning it does.
  - usr1106 4y ago
    No, I was not talking about CO2 now. I was talking about the global energy market. Most of Europe decided that buying energy from Russia needs to be phased out to give them less money to finance their attack war. I think that's a good plan. Unfortunately with acceptable supplies shrinking prices went up. So now Russia has more income to finance the war. I know it's not a very popular opinion, but for me drastically shrinking demand is the measure that helps. That this would help the CO2 issue is only a nice side effect.
- MandieD 4y ago
  That’s why we’ve parked the car for all trips that are even theoretically possible with transit and keep the house at 17-18 C (about 64 Freedom Degrees), aside from the toddler’s room.
twelve40 4y ago
> Traditional banking system is unreliable Chase lets you send wires online for 40 bucks still to all but half a dozen banks there. There might be cheaper ways to wire, too. Not sure what's so unreliable about that, worked all of this year so far.
- throw6383878 4y ago
  My experience is opposite, but never tried Chase, will look thx.
  - twelve40 4y ago
    need to make sure it's not one of the 7 sanctioned recepient banks. So e.g. Sber obviously won't work, but e.g. Raiffeisen works well for me.
reallydontask 4y ago
If the unreliability of the traditional banking system is due to sanctions, then that would suggest that what you are doing is circumventing sanctions and thus quite likely illegal. Lots of caveats as I don't have enough information, happy to be corrected though.
- twelve40 4y ago
  Unless they are dead set on specifically sending money to the 7 sanctioned institutions, there is absolutely nothing illegal or unstable about this. Source: me wiring modest amounts regularly to my own accounts there to pay local taxes and other things from my regular US bank accounts.
- usr1106 4y ago
  Not sure whether it is illegal. I certainly don't like the imperialistic US view that their sanctions are globally binding. Citizens and businesses from other countries should not be bound by US laws while not being on US ground. But I think that these sanctions against Russia are ethically justified. So circumventing them is unethical for me, whether illegal or not. Edit: Saying that these sanctions are ethically justified does not imply that they would be the most efficient or effective way to stop the war.
  - Veen 4y ago
    A currency exchange recently got a substantial fine for allowing users to circumvent sanctions. https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/crypto-exchange-bittrex-fined-53-mln-by-us-treasury-dept-2022-10-11/ https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/crypto-exchange-bit...
ShivShankaran 4y ago

usr1106 4y ago

I claim even driving a car is unethical. Russia earns more money from energy imports now than before the war. Price is a function of supply and demand. Supply is difficult to change and certainly not in an ethical way. So everone maintaining demand supports the war, whether they want or not. An action does not get ethical because others are worse. It's good for your conscience noting others are worse, I don't deny that. (And I did not say that I don't do the same. I recently had to take a plane. It was unethical to make Russia's war budget grow a tiny bit by doing so, but I thought staying at home would have had other morally unpleasant consequences.)

throw6383878 4y ago
- hunter-gatherer 4y ago
  I don't think op is taking about CO2 emissions, rather that Russia exports a lot of fuel. But even if op is taking about CO2, diving a car and breathing aren't that comparable. Exhaling CO2 is part of the active CO2 cycle and doesn't really contribute to climate change. Digging up locked carbon from the ground and burning it does.
- usr1106 4y ago
  No, I was not talking about CO2 now. I was talking about the global energy market. Most of Europe decided that buying energy from Russia needs to be phased out to give them less money to finance their attack war. I think that's a good plan. Unfortunately with acceptable supplies shrinking prices went up. So now Russia has more income to finance the war. I know it's not a very popular opinion, but for me drastically shrinking demand is the measure that helps. That this would help the CO2 issue is only a nice side effect.
MandieD 4y ago
That’s why we’ve parked the car for all trips that are even theoretically possible with transit and keep the house at 17-18 C (about 64 Freedom Degrees), aside from the toddler’s room.

twelve40 4y ago

> Traditional banking system is unreliable Chase lets you send wires online for 40 bucks still to all but half a dozen banks there. There might be cheaper ways to wire, too. Not sure what's so unreliable about that, worked all of this year so far.

throw6383878 4y ago
My experience is opposite, but never tried Chase, will look thx.
- twelve40 4y ago
  need to make sure it's not one of the 7 sanctioned recepient banks. So e.g. Sber obviously won't work, but e.g. Raiffeisen works well for me.

reallydontask 4y ago

If the unreliability of the traditional banking system is due to sanctions, then that would suggest that what you are doing is circumventing sanctions and thus quite likely illegal. Lots of caveats as I don't have enough information, happy to be corrected though.

twelve40 4y ago
Unless they are dead set on specifically sending money to the 7 sanctioned institutions, there is absolutely nothing illegal or unstable about this. Source: me wiring modest amounts regularly to my own accounts there to pay local taxes and other things from my regular US bank accounts.
usr1106 4y ago
Not sure whether it is illegal. I certainly don't like the imperialistic US view that their sanctions are globally binding. Citizens and businesses from other countries should not be bound by US laws while not being on US ground. But I think that these sanctions against Russia are ethically justified. So circumventing them is unethical for me, whether illegal or not. Edit: Saying that these sanctions are ethically justified does not imply that they would be the most efficient or effective way to stop the war.
- Veen 4y ago
  A currency exchange recently got a substantial fine for allowing users to circumvent sanctions. https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/crypto-exchange-bittrex-fined-53-mln-by-us-treasury-dept-2022-10-11/ https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/crypto-exchange-bit...

ShivShankaran 4y ago