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Lots of disdain for Cogent on this thread, and very little comments about HE effectively having much the same business model as Cogent: sell pipes as cheap as p

Lots of disdain for Cogent on this thread, and very little comments about HE effectively having much the same business model as Cogent: sell pipes as cheap as possible, run them as hot (full) as possible, care little about performance implications. As a transit supplier, they’re both pretty low quality, suited to bulk traffic only. Anything latency/loss sensitive goes over other providers. HE and Cogent both are best suited to their roles as carrier of last resort. If you as a customer depend primarily on either of them, that’s a particularly unfortunate situation that should be remediated if possible.

ddalex 4y ago
Isn't this the intended business model? Different tiers for different needs at different price points? I'd think that HE could offer a higher service level with better quality if the economics would make sense
guerby 4y ago
HE will peer with you for free on most IX AFAIK, here is an HE IPv6 peering from a tiny not-for-profit ISP on FranceIX-Paris: https://lg.tetaneutral.net/detail/h7/ipv6?q=HE_FRANCEIX_PARIS_6 https://lg.tetaneutral.net/detail/h7/ipv6?q=HE_FRANCEIX_PARI... 162016 IPv6 routes from HE. Current IPv6 full view about 166926 routes. Cogent will not peer with you. If you're starting an ISP: buy cogent and another transit, peer with HE on your local IX, you should be good to go.
- bradfitz 4y ago
  Yup! I have 162161 routes from HE right now (for free) on the SeattleIX.
humanistbot 4y ago
> Lots of disdain for Cogent on this thread, and very little comments about HE effectively having much the same business model as Cogent: sell pipes as cheap as possible, run them as hot (full) as possible, care little about performance implications. I'm sorry, but how is the quality of HE's performance in any way relevant to the issue of Cogent refusing to follow industry norms for settlement-free / equal cost-sharing peering? Cogent isn't refusing to peer with HE (and Google btw) because of latency/loss. Cogent is notorious for trying to squeeze every penny out of other networks through peering, HE is the exact opposite.

ddalex 4y ago

Isn't this the intended business model? Different tiers for different needs at different price points? I'd think that HE could offer a higher service level with better quality if the economics would make sense

guerby 4y ago

HE will peer with you for free on most IX AFAIK, here is an HE IPv6 peering from a tiny not-for-profit ISP on FranceIX-Paris: https://lg.tetaneutral.net/detail/h7/ipv6?q=HE_FRANCEIX_PARIS_6 https://lg.tetaneutral.net/detail/h7/ipv6?q=HE_FRANCEIX_PARI... 162016 IPv6 routes from HE. Current IPv6 full view about 166926 routes. Cogent will not peer with you. If you're starting an ISP: buy cogent and another transit, peer with HE on your local IX, you should be good to go.

bradfitz 4y ago
Yup! I have 162161 routes from HE right now (for free) on the SeattleIX.

humanistbot 4y ago

> Lots of disdain for Cogent on this thread, and very little comments about HE effectively having much the same business model as Cogent: sell pipes as cheap as possible, run them as hot (full) as possible, care little about performance implications. I'm sorry, but how is the quality of HE's performance in any way relevant to the issue of Cogent refusing to follow industry norms for settlement-free / equal cost-sharing peering? Cogent isn't refusing to peer with HE (and Google btw) because of latency/loss. Cogent is notorious for trying to squeeze every penny out of other networks through peering, HE is the exact opposite.