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> There simply isn’t enough pilots anywhere in the pipeline. Really? Can you back that up with some reference somewhere? From talking to aspiring airline pil

by bsder 4y ago

> There simply isn’t enough pilots anywhere in the pipeline. Really? Can you back that up with some reference somewhere? From talking to aspiring airline pilots, it seems that their career trajectory is terrible until they actually land their butt in the seat of a major airline plane. How can we have such a shortage of pilots and at the same time have such lousy pay and working conditions for the infeed?

akiselev 4y ago
See the FAA's US Civil Airmen Statistics spreadsheet for the overall big picture [1]. Specifically, the "Pilot Total w/o Student Category" fell from 490k in 2012 to 470k in 2021, despite the number of instructors growing from 98k to 121k. The number of students has skyrocketed from 120k in 2012 to 250k in 2021 but it's just not translating to commercially viable pilots: we added 30k students last year but lost several hundred airline pilots and only gained 600 commercial pilots. The number of PPLs fell from 188k in 2012 to 161k in 2021. [1] https://www.faa.gov/data_research/aviation_data_statistics/civil_airmen_statistics https://www.faa.gov/data_research/aviation_data_statistics/c...
mym1990 4y ago
Not sure if sarcasm, but are you asking how there is a shortage in airline pilots when the incentives to start looking at a career in the field are terrible?
- smallerfish 4y ago
  No, they're wondering why the market isn't responding to the shortage by increasing compensation, if the shortage is genuine.
  - bsder 4y ago
    Precisely. The working conditions for the infeed are terrible for pilots as well as flight attendants. A friend went through flight attendent training recently. She did very well but eventually dropped out when the total compensation was small and didn't include things like the rent you pay to "hot bunk" at wherever you wind up stationed. Compensation also didn't include things like paying for your attorney if you are sued while working for the airline. So many "shortages" are like the "shortage" of engineers. No, there are plenty of engineers--just none willing to put up with your bullshit at that price.

by bsder 4y ago

akiselev 4y ago

See the FAA's US Civil Airmen Statistics spreadsheet for the overall big picture [1]. Specifically, the "Pilot Total w/o Student Category" fell from 490k in 2012 to 470k in 2021, despite the number of instructors growing from 98k to 121k. The number of students has skyrocketed from 120k in 2012 to 250k in 2021 but it's just not translating to commercially viable pilots: we added 30k students last year but lost several hundred airline pilots and only gained 600 commercial pilots. The number of PPLs fell from 188k in 2012 to 161k in 2021. [1] https://www.faa.gov/data_research/aviation_data_statistics/civil_airmen_statistics https://www.faa.gov/data_research/aviation_data_statistics/c...

mym1990 4y ago

Not sure if sarcasm, but are you asking how there is a shortage in airline pilots when the incentives to start looking at a career in the field are terrible?

smallerfish 4y ago
No, they're wondering why the market isn't responding to the shortage by increasing compensation, if the shortage is genuine.
- bsder 4y ago
  Precisely. The working conditions for the infeed are terrible for pilots as well as flight attendants. A friend went through flight attendent training recently. She did very well but eventually dropped out when the total compensation was small and didn't include things like the rent you pay to "hot bunk" at wherever you wind up stationed. Compensation also didn't include things like paying for your attorney if you are sued while working for the airline. So many "shortages" are like the "shortage" of engineers. No, there are plenty of engineers--just none willing to put up with your bullshit at that price.