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How is it only "inspired" when it's not only the same pose, but the same person and the same clothes, up to its individual folds. "Inspired" would be inviting a

How is it only "inspired" when it's not only the same pose, but the same person and the same clothes, up to its individual folds. "Inspired" would be inviting a model to wear the same thing and take the pose, and painting that. Here, it's a reproduction of the mirrored picture, with different colors and trivial changes (like the earings). Calling this inspiration is utterly ridiculous.

autoexec 4y ago
> but the same person and the same clothes, up to its individual folds. It's not the same person. The face is very different, as is the hair. not the same folds either, look at the white cloth near the flower. It's also a painting and not a photograph. If a painter creates a painting of Grand Central Station has he violated the copyright of the architect? Artists must be able to create, by their own hand, their own versions of things depicted in other works of art or even of other artistic works themselves. (see for example https://publicdelivery.org/fernando-botero-mona-lisa/ https://publicdelivery.org/fernando-botero-mona-lisa/)
- glandium 4y ago
  Counter example: THE TOWER ILLUMINATED Controlled use The various illuminations of the Eiffel Tower (golden illumination, twinkling, beacon and events lighting) are protected. The use of the image of the Eiffel Tower at night is therefore subject to prior authorisation by the SETE. This use is subject to payment of rights, the amount of which is determined by the intended use, the media plan, etc. https://www.toureiffel.paris/en/business/use-image-of-eiffel-tower https://www.toureiffel.paris/en/business/use-image-of-eiffel...
  - pdntspa 4y ago
    This sort of copyright absurdity warrants flouting the rules as often as is realistically possible. It may be an overreach backed by law, but that makes it no less of an overreach.
    - glandium 4y ago
      Note, I don't have a strong opinion wrt copyright infringement in the case OP is about, but words are important. Let's not pretend it's "inspired".
  - autoexec 4y ago
    True, I do feel that some cases take copyright protection way too far and we're all worse off for it. Here's another example of that from the US: https://rpjlaw.com/blurred-lines-copying-songs-musical-style-enough-warrant-copyright-infringement/ https://rpjlaw.com/blurred-lines-copying-songs-musical-style... Overbroad copyright protections are often granted, but it's never a good thing for anyone except the shortsighted artists who stand to directly benefit from censoring their peers and preventing the rest of us from having a richer culture.
  - twic 4y ago
    This is a "freedom of panorama" thing, one of the few aspects of copyright which varies extensively across the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_panorama https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_panorama
- djur 4y ago
  The flowers are arranged identically in the painting to the photograph. The differences between the two are trivial. The hair is certainly not "very different" and the face is similar enough to be a copying by an imprecise hand. This isn't a painting of Grand Central Station, it's a photo of the Mona Lisa.
- its-summertime 4y ago
  https://imgur.com/8OoQFr8 https://imgur.com/8OoQFr8 the image is composite of 50% the photo, 50% the painting. (with re-alignment, the flowers are also a perfect match, same for the clothes, etc.) Just because you are using your hand, doesn't mean that you magically are no longer copying
  - autoexec 4y ago
    > Just because you are using your hand, doesn't mean that you magically are no longer copying All art is copying. A painter selected a set of colors, choosing some over others, and then used their own skill and a brush to put those colors to canvas in order to create something based on how they saw an object in the world around them. Their subject was filtered by the eyes and perspective of the artist. The artist chose what to keep identical, what to emphasize, what to remove, or when to add something that the subject they were painting never had. The result is something unique that represents the artist's viewpoint. The photo was clearly the artist's subject, and so it is very similar, but what resulted was not a reproduction of the original. Personally, I like the original photo much better, but I might like another artist's take on it even more than the original photo. That's why we should be careful when granting copyright protections. When artists can freely create new works by reinterpreting the subjects, ideas, and output of other artists we get a more rich and thriving culture filled with different artistic works to choose from according to our own preferences. It's important to police reproductions so that artists can continue to be rewarded for their works, but over-apply copyright and you not only censor artists, you can prevent yourself from having or experiencing something that would have deeply touched you, or even changed you.
    - its-summertime 4y ago
      > The artist chooses what to keep identical [All of it], what to emphasize [None of it], what to remove [None of it], or what to add [Nothing]
      - autoexec 4y ago
        There are clear differences between the painting and the photo, multiple things were added and removed. You might not place much value in them, but that's purely subjective. I must place more importance on those changes than you do because I have a preference for the photo over the painting. Objectively, those changes do exist regardless of how we feel about them.
debesyla 4y ago
It's not a carbon copy and the changes aren't minimal - thus it's inspired, not copied. After all, copyright works for whole thing, not spare parts (technique, style or "idea" aren't copyrightable)...
- laserlight 4y ago
  > copyright works for whole thing No, this is wrong. Here's a counterexample [0]. [0] Structure, sequence and organization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure,_sequence_and_organization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure,_sequence_and_organi...
- esrauch 4y ago
  Essentially any movie adaptation of a book can't be copyright infringement based on this being the bar; even cases that keep many lines of dialog verbatim end up just being detail similar to keeping the exact same folds of fabric at the bottom.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    > Essentially any movie adaptation of a book can't be copyright infringement based on this being the bar; I'd agree with that. A movie adaptation (with changes) should be allowed under copyright because it's clearly transformative and creative. Copyright should protect against reproduction without compensation, it shouldn't be used to prevent new artistic works from being created even when they are based on existing works. That's how I feel about it anyway, although sadly the law we have today in the US would disagree.
fallinghawks 4y ago
I agree, it is far beyond "inspiration". Next to zero changes: same type of flowers, identical thinness of straps, hair up in a loose bun with strands spraying in very similar locations, folds in the fabric carbon-copy identical. Even the eyebrow, with its slight heaviness on the straight part, is the same. Dude made her eye a bit more slanted, wow. This is saying anyone can flip, photocopy, and color someone else's work, making the most nominal changes, and it's suddenly an "original."
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- wruza 4y ago
  Tbh, what I perceive as “art” in the original work is still unique and wasn’t copied into the reproduction. It’s a copy of hair, face and clothing configuration, which is non-unique and a strange subject for copyright. I mean this is obviously borderline, but still a subjective issue. If you like analogies, it’s like some pro photographer found a place, angle and hundreds of other parameters to shoot in the nature, copyrighted the image, and then someone geoguess’d that exact place next day and took a pic with their iphone or google maps street view.

autoexec 4y ago

> but the same person and the same clothes, up to its individual folds. It's not the same person. The face is very different, as is the hair. not the same folds either, look at the white cloth near the flower. It's also a painting and not a photograph. If a painter creates a painting of Grand Central Station has he violated the copyright of the architect? Artists must be able to create, by their own hand, their own versions of things depicted in other works of art or even of other artistic works themselves. (see for example https://publicdelivery.org/fernando-botero-mona-lisa/ https://publicdelivery.org/fernando-botero-mona-lisa/)

glandium 4y ago
Counter example: THE TOWER ILLUMINATED Controlled use The various illuminations of the Eiffel Tower (golden illumination, twinkling, beacon and events lighting) are protected. The use of the image of the Eiffel Tower at night is therefore subject to prior authorisation by the SETE. This use is subject to payment of rights, the amount of which is determined by the intended use, the media plan, etc. https://www.toureiffel.paris/en/business/use-image-of-eiffel-tower https://www.toureiffel.paris/en/business/use-image-of-eiffel...
- pdntspa 4y ago
  This sort of copyright absurdity warrants flouting the rules as often as is realistically possible. It may be an overreach backed by law, but that makes it no less of an overreach.
  - glandium 4y ago
    Note, I don't have a strong opinion wrt copyright infringement in the case OP is about, but words are important. Let's not pretend it's "inspired".
- autoexec 4y ago
  True, I do feel that some cases take copyright protection way too far and we're all worse off for it. Here's another example of that from the US: https://rpjlaw.com/blurred-lines-copying-songs-musical-style-enough-warrant-copyright-infringement/ https://rpjlaw.com/blurred-lines-copying-songs-musical-style... Overbroad copyright protections are often granted, but it's never a good thing for anyone except the shortsighted artists who stand to directly benefit from censoring their peers and preventing the rest of us from having a richer culture.
- twic 4y ago
  This is a "freedom of panorama" thing, one of the few aspects of copyright which varies extensively across the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_panorama https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_panorama
djur 4y ago
The flowers are arranged identically in the painting to the photograph. The differences between the two are trivial. The hair is certainly not "very different" and the face is similar enough to be a copying by an imprecise hand. This isn't a painting of Grand Central Station, it's a photo of the Mona Lisa.
its-summertime 4y ago
https://imgur.com/8OoQFr8 https://imgur.com/8OoQFr8 the image is composite of 50% the photo, 50% the painting. (with re-alignment, the flowers are also a perfect match, same for the clothes, etc.) Just because you are using your hand, doesn't mean that you magically are no longer copying
- autoexec 4y ago
  > Just because you are using your hand, doesn't mean that you magically are no longer copying All art is copying. A painter selected a set of colors, choosing some over others, and then used their own skill and a brush to put those colors to canvas in order to create something based on how they saw an object in the world around them. Their subject was filtered by the eyes and perspective of the artist. The artist chose what to keep identical, what to emphasize, what to remove, or when to add something that the subject they were painting never had. The result is something unique that represents the artist's viewpoint. The photo was clearly the artist's subject, and so it is very similar, but what resulted was not a reproduction of the original. Personally, I like the original photo much better, but I might like another artist's take on it even more than the original photo. That's why we should be careful when granting copyright protections. When artists can freely create new works by reinterpreting the subjects, ideas, and output of other artists we get a more rich and thriving culture filled with different artistic works to choose from according to our own preferences. It's important to police reproductions so that artists can continue to be rewarded for their works, but over-apply copyright and you not only censor artists, you can prevent yourself from having or experiencing something that would have deeply touched you, or even changed you.
  - its-summertime 4y ago
    > The artist chooses what to keep identical [All of it], what to emphasize [None of it], what to remove [None of it], or what to add [Nothing]
    - autoexec 4y ago
      There are clear differences between the painting and the photo, multiple things were added and removed. You might not place much value in them, but that's purely subjective. I must place more importance on those changes than you do because I have a preference for the photo over the painting. Objectively, those changes do exist regardless of how we feel about them.

debesyla 4y ago

It's not a carbon copy and the changes aren't minimal - thus it's inspired, not copied. After all, copyright works for whole thing, not spare parts (technique, style or "idea" aren't copyrightable)...

laserlight 4y ago
> copyright works for whole thing No, this is wrong. Here's a counterexample [0]. [0] Structure, sequence and organization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure,_sequence_and_organization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure,_sequence_and_organi...
esrauch 4y ago
Essentially any movie adaptation of a book can't be copyright infringement based on this being the bar; even cases that keep many lines of dialog verbatim end up just being detail similar to keeping the exact same folds of fabric at the bottom.
- autoexec 4y ago
  > Essentially any movie adaptation of a book can't be copyright infringement based on this being the bar; I'd agree with that. A movie adaptation (with changes) should be allowed under copyright because it's clearly transformative and creative. Copyright should protect against reproduction without compensation, it shouldn't be used to prevent new artistic works from being created even when they are based on existing works. That's how I feel about it anyway, although sadly the law we have today in the US would disagree.

fallinghawks 4y ago

I agree, it is far beyond "inspiration". Next to zero changes: same type of flowers, identical thinness of straps, hair up in a loose bun with strands spraying in very similar locations, folds in the fabric carbon-copy identical. Even the eyebrow, with its slight heaviness on the straight part, is the same. Dude made her eye a bit more slanted, wow. This is saying anyone can flip, photocopy, and color someone else's work, making the most nominal changes, and it's suddenly an "original."

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
wruza 4y ago
Tbh, what I perceive as “art” in the original work is still unique and wasn’t copied into the reproduction. It’s a copy of hair, face and clothing configuration, which is non-unique and a strange subject for copyright. I mean this is obviously borderline, but still a subjective issue. If you like analogies, it’s like some pro photographer found a place, angle and hundreds of other parameters to shoot in the nature, copyrighted the image, and then someone geoguess’d that exact place next day and took a pic with their iphone or google maps street view.