5 ms·

I'm not sure I'd want to travel on commercial aircraft if the regulators eliminate pilot redundancy.

pigtailgirl 4y ago
-- interesting - total opposite for me - #1 cause of commercial aircraft accidents is pilot error - by a long shot - personally - looking forward to the day humans are not involved in flying an aircraft -- https://nci.edu/2021/06/08/the-most-common-causes-of-aviation-accidents/ https://nci.edu/2021/06/08/the-most-common-causes-of-aviatio... https://www.faa.gov/data_research/research/med_humanfacs/oamtechreports/2000s/media/200618.pdf https://www.faa.gov/data_research/research/med_humanfacs/oam...
- McDev 4y ago
  Better to have the final say come from someone at the controls rather than a desk in Silicon Valley. Humans aren't going anywhere.
- atkailash 4y ago
- p_l 4y ago
  Main reason pilot error is #1 cause is that hardware problems can be fixed once and for all, while pilots take care of all the exceptions. Also, doing a CFIT while flying on autopilot is still a pilot error, because they gave the autopilot's orders.
  - pigtailgirl 4y ago
    -- https://www.faa.gov/data_research/research/med_humanfacs/oamtechreports/2000s/media/200618.pdf https://www.faa.gov/data_research/research/med_humanfacs/oam... - page 6 tru 16 are interesting --
- c0m 4y ago
  Maybe this will be fine when the technology is there, but it's very obvious that doing this change today -- especially when it's being lobbied to be applied to cargo planes first (historically much older former passenger planes w/o modern creature comforts) -- is going only going to increase deaths by pilot error.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  After pilots are eliminated, the #1 cause of accidents will be autopilot error.
  - pigtailgirl 4y ago
    -- it will likely still be a human factor - maintenance/mechanical is the second cause after pilot error --
    - hef19898 4y ago
      Think it through, get rid of human engineers designing those aircraft, get rid of human mechanics and engineers maintaining them, human pilots flying them and human managers driving all of that. While we are at it, get rid of human passengers, without those there won't be any dead people neither if the machines get it wrong.
      - Sporktacular 4y ago
        And get rid of the surface population of earth what we're at it so the flying robo-bombs don't fall on anyone.
      - pigtailgirl 4y ago
        -- refresher on the guidelines - Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. Edit out swipes. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. -- https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- vore 4y ago
  We should really just petition the FAA to eliminate all pilots entirely right now: it'll eliminate the #1 cause of commercial aircraft accidents.
shitlord 4y ago
If autopilot can control an airplane, then couldn't someone also pilot the plane remotely (as if it were a drone)? That would provide some pilot redundancy. I imagine airlines could also save money on staffing if the copilot didn't have to be physically present.
- p_l 4y ago
  1) the autopilot is actually quite dumb ("keep altitude", "fly on course X", "maintain set speed", "change altitude at rate X / to level Y"), doesn't handle exceptions (in fact, autopilots are designed to disengage in case of exception), and is generally totally blind to environment other than heading, speed, altitude and optionally position (but not, for example, detailed environment on the ground) 2) The latency issues are literally deadly.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Modern autopilots can taxi, takeoff, and with a supporting airport, even autoland. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoland https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoland
    - p_l 4y ago
      Out of those three, the only one actually working anywhere is Autoland, and majority of airports don't support it. No airport supports autopilot taxi nor takeoff (takeoff is done half-automated at most).
- mym1990 4y ago
  My gut feeling is that when companies cut costs by cutting safety features, it doesn't play out favorably for consumers.
- papito 4y ago
  Airlines are fighting tooth and nail to not spend money to implement video feeds on the black boxes, a rather doable upgrade with huge safety benefits, and you want to mandate expenditures on converting all air ships to full remote drones? That is never going to happen.

-- interesting - total opposite for me - #1 cause of commercial aircraft accidents is pilot error - by a long shot - personally - looking forward to the day humans are not involved in flying an aircraft -- https://nci.edu/2021/06/08/the-most-common-causes-of-aviation-accidents/ https://nci.edu/2021/06/08/the-most-common-causes-of-aviatio... https://www.faa.gov/data_research/research/med_humanfacs/oamtechreports/2000s/media/200618.pdf https://www.faa.gov/data_research/research/med_humanfacs/oam...

McDev 4y ago
Better to have the final say come from someone at the controls rather than a desk in Silicon Valley. Humans aren't going anywhere.
atkailash 4y ago
p_l 4y ago
Main reason pilot error is #1 cause is that hardware problems can be fixed once and for all, while pilots take care of all the exceptions. Also, doing a CFIT while flying on autopilot is still a pilot error, because they gave the autopilot's orders.
- pigtailgirl 4y ago
  -- https://www.faa.gov/data_research/research/med_humanfacs/oamtechreports/2000s/media/200618.pdf https://www.faa.gov/data_research/research/med_humanfacs/oam... - page 6 tru 16 are interesting --
c0m 4y ago
Maybe this will be fine when the technology is there, but it's very obvious that doing this change today -- especially when it's being lobbied to be applied to cargo planes first (historically much older former passenger planes w/o modern creature comforts) -- is going only going to increase deaths by pilot error.
pessimizer 4y ago
After pilots are eliminated, the #1 cause of accidents will be autopilot error.
- pigtailgirl 4y ago
  -- it will likely still be a human factor - maintenance/mechanical is the second cause after pilot error --
  - hef19898 4y ago
    Think it through, get rid of human engineers designing those aircraft, get rid of human mechanics and engineers maintaining them, human pilots flying them and human managers driving all of that. While we are at it, get rid of human passengers, without those there won't be any dead people neither if the machines get it wrong.
    - Sporktacular 4y ago
      And get rid of the surface population of earth what we're at it so the flying robo-bombs don't fall on anyone.
    - pigtailgirl 4y ago
      -- refresher on the guidelines - Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. Edit out swipes. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. -- https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
vore 4y ago
We should really just petition the FAA to eliminate all pilots entirely right now: it'll eliminate the #1 cause of commercial aircraft accidents.

shitlord 4y ago

If autopilot can control an airplane, then couldn't someone also pilot the plane remotely (as if it were a drone)? That would provide some pilot redundancy. I imagine airlines could also save money on staffing if the copilot didn't have to be physically present.

p_l 4y ago
1) the autopilot is actually quite dumb ("keep altitude", "fly on course X", "maintain set speed", "change altitude at rate X / to level Y"), doesn't handle exceptions (in fact, autopilots are designed to disengage in case of exception), and is generally totally blind to environment other than heading, speed, altitude and optionally position (but not, for example, detailed environment on the ground) 2) The latency issues are literally deadly.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Modern autopilots can taxi, takeoff, and with a supporting airport, even autoland. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoland https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoland
  - p_l 4y ago
    Out of those three, the only one actually working anywhere is Autoland, and majority of airports don't support it. No airport supports autopilot taxi nor takeoff (takeoff is done half-automated at most).
mym1990 4y ago
My gut feeling is that when companies cut costs by cutting safety features, it doesn't play out favorably for consumers.
papito 4y ago
Airlines are fighting tooth and nail to not spend money to implement video feeds on the black boxes, a rather doable upgrade with huge safety benefits, and you want to mandate expenditures on converting all air ships to full remote drones? That is never going to happen.