4 ms·

Car, house, selling/buying land etc. Mostly coz many banks take % cut on big money tranfers so taking it out and just giving it to someone in a bag is sometime

by ilyt 4y ago

Car, house, selling/buying land etc. Mostly coz many banks take % cut on big money tranfers so taking it out and just giving it to someone in a bag is sometimes tens of thousands cheaper

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> Car, house, selling/buying land etc. so you would buy a house in cash? How much will the personal protection cost? I don't think I would accept to sell my house to soneone who pretends to pay cash, I wouldn't want to deal with that much money and all the risks involved, including the fact that there's no guarantees that the money is actually not fake. Besides, money transfer is so cheap that it hasn't been an issue since at least 30 years ago. We are taking about Europe here. If you knew someone who buys houses in cash, can you swear your first question would not be "where did that much money in cash comes from?"
beebeepka 4y ago
Sizeable withdrawals aren't exactly free. Especially if you go unannounced
- ahtihn 4y ago
  That depends on the country and bank. I can withdraw any amount of money for free.
bonzini 4y ago
Not in Europe. Bought a car last year, transferring the money was €0.50.
acatton 4y ago
This doesn't apply to most EU countries. (Nuance: I'm not well versed in the legal system of countries part of the Bucharest Nine group, hence my "most") In most of the EU, buying land and houses is done through a notary services. Depending on the country, you either do a SEPA transfer directly to the notary, and they then send it to the other party. Or, in other countries, you do the SEPA transfer to the other party, and then the notary approves the ownership-transfer once both parties confirm the money-transfer is complete. Estate ownership is not proved by a piece of paper like with American "titles", they're backed with government-kept records, which only a notary can change. (and that's what you pay them for, in addition to taxes) Nothing is happening in cash, because many EU governments want to be able to follow the money used to buy estate. Notaries usually report the transfer to the tax authorities. If the money cannot be justified, the notary must cancel the transaction, and some financial investigators will follow up. There are no fees, as opposed to what many other HN commenters says. Because if your bank has fees for SEPA transfers, you can always switch to virtual-cross-EU-online banks which have no fees for SEPA transfers. However, you will be notary fees, which most of it is just plain tax.
- ilyt 4y ago
  We literally got paid in cash for piece of land to build a house my dad was selling few years ago. Yes, notary was involved and it would be invalid if buyer didn't paid, but it was very much a bundle of cash getting exchanged.
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    use of cash is not prohibited, the proposal forbids it for amount larger than 10k in a single transactions unless authorized A notary signing an agreement between a buyer and a seller is a legitimate reason to spend all that money in cash. Which is very rare though, I only know old cow farmers in little towns close to the mountains here that deal with much cash (for lack of near bank offices and their lack of a driving license)
- newaccount74 4y ago
  The funny thing is, that cash is often used for deals, because you general have to pay taxes and fees depending on the value. So someone might officially pay 20.000€ for a piece of land, pay the taxes and fees based on that price, but pay the remaining 60.000€ in cash. Obviously this is illegal, but the notaries are in on it.
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    That all sound nice and clean, until it's not. Two examples from my European Country, where the practice is spread and people believe they are smart but are really not. --- a lot of people did it here, especially in the 80s-90s. Then we started building high speed 4 lanes highways and high speed trains. You know how much the State paid for the land used to build those infrastructures? EXACTLY! The nominal values, so basically people got compensated for a tenth of the actual price. The State also explained publicly that most of the land in straight flat paths, was chosen using their market value. If it's worthless, nobody will protest, on the contrary, they will be happy that someone is buying it for a price. Some of these people were so stupid that sued the State. Of course the State won and also discovered the fraud, collecting even more money in the form of fines. --- Recently a campaign of subsidies to improve energy efficiency of buildings was launched. The benefits are up to 110% of the total costs. Yep, 110%. So my parents, who always did everything by the book, and got called foolish by their neighbors for years, got for free a 45k photovoltaic system and the renewal of the shed, while most of the requests were rejected because various irregularities were in place. Which again did the government a tool to investigate who committed a fraud in the past and fine them. --- Personal advice: unless you're Bezos level rich, don't try to outmsart the government. Chances are your children will have to pay for your assholeness.

by ilyt 4y ago

Car, house, selling/buying land etc. Mostly coz many banks take % cut on big money tranfers so taking it out and just giving it to someone in a bag is sometimes tens of thousands cheaper

peoplefromibiza 4y ago

> Car, house, selling/buying land etc. so you would buy a house in cash? How much will the personal protection cost? I don't think I would accept to sell my house to soneone who pretends to pay cash, I wouldn't want to deal with that much money and all the risks involved, including the fact that there's no guarantees that the money is actually not fake. Besides, money transfer is so cheap that it hasn't been an issue since at least 30 years ago. We are taking about Europe here. If you knew someone who buys houses in cash, can you swear your first question would not be "where did that much money in cash comes from?"

beebeepka 4y ago

Sizeable withdrawals aren't exactly free. Especially if you go unannounced

ahtihn 4y ago
That depends on the country and bank. I can withdraw any amount of money for free.

bonzini 4y ago

Not in Europe. Bought a car last year, transferring the money was €0.50.

acatton 4y ago

This doesn't apply to most EU countries. (Nuance: I'm not well versed in the legal system of countries part of the Bucharest Nine group, hence my "most") In most of the EU, buying land and houses is done through a notary services. Depending on the country, you either do a SEPA transfer directly to the notary, and they then send it to the other party. Or, in other countries, you do the SEPA transfer to the other party, and then the notary approves the ownership-transfer once both parties confirm the money-transfer is complete. Estate ownership is not proved by a piece of paper like with American "titles", they're backed with government-kept records, which only a notary can change. (and that's what you pay them for, in addition to taxes) Nothing is happening in cash, because many EU governments want to be able to follow the money used to buy estate. Notaries usually report the transfer to the tax authorities. If the money cannot be justified, the notary must cancel the transaction, and some financial investigators will follow up. There are no fees, as opposed to what many other HN commenters says. Because if your bank has fees for SEPA transfers, you can always switch to virtual-cross-EU-online banks which have no fees for SEPA transfers. However, you will be notary fees, which most of it is just plain tax.

ilyt 4y ago
We literally got paid in cash for piece of land to build a house my dad was selling few years ago. Yes, notary was involved and it would be invalid if buyer didn't paid, but it was very much a bundle of cash getting exchanged.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  use of cash is not prohibited, the proposal forbids it for amount larger than 10k in a single transactions unless authorized A notary signing an agreement between a buyer and a seller is a legitimate reason to spend all that money in cash. Which is very rare though, I only know old cow farmers in little towns close to the mountains here that deal with much cash (for lack of near bank offices and their lack of a driving license)
newaccount74 4y ago
The funny thing is, that cash is often used for deals, because you general have to pay taxes and fees depending on the value. So someone might officially pay 20.000€ for a piece of land, pay the taxes and fees based on that price, but pay the remaining 60.000€ in cash. Obviously this is illegal, but the notaries are in on it.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  That all sound nice and clean, until it's not. Two examples from my European Country, where the practice is spread and people believe they are smart but are really not. --- a lot of people did it here, especially in the 80s-90s. Then we started building high speed 4 lanes highways and high speed trains. You know how much the State paid for the land used to build those infrastructures? EXACTLY! The nominal values, so basically people got compensated for a tenth of the actual price. The State also explained publicly that most of the land in straight flat paths, was chosen using their market value. If it's worthless, nobody will protest, on the contrary, they will be happy that someone is buying it for a price. Some of these people were so stupid that sued the State. Of course the State won and also discovered the fraud, collecting even more money in the form of fines. --- Recently a campaign of subsidies to improve energy efficiency of buildings was launched. The benefits are up to 110% of the total costs. Yep, 110%. So my parents, who always did everything by the book, and got called foolish by their neighbors for years, got for free a 45k photovoltaic system and the renewal of the shed, while most of the requests were rejected because various irregularities were in place. Which again did the government a tool to investigate who committed a fraud in the past and fine them. --- Personal advice: unless you're Bezos level rich, don't try to outmsart the government. Chances are your children will have to pay for your assholeness.