5 ms·

I agree with your sentiment, but your anger re: housing is misdirected. Developers do not short the housing supply. Like most businesses they make more in volum

I agree with your sentiment, but your anger re: housing is misdirected. Developers do not short the housing supply. Like most businesses they make more in volume than they do in margin and would happily build more units at any price range if it was legal. In the US and UK (and probably many other countries) the government has a default stance of allowing no or nearly no development without excruciatingly painful, expensive, and slow bargaining with city hall. The primary job of a developer is to get permission to build something. The government is killing supply, not the developers.

namaria 4y ago
Landowners versus wage slaves. Nothing changed in politics over 25 centuries.
protoman3000 4y ago
I understand your willingness to attribute wrong behavior to the correct culprit. But, how does it come, that these procedures to get building permits have been slowed down/bureaucratized to the point that it almost seems intentional? Also, the anger is not about them intentionally shortening supply - it’s about them intentionally asking and taking the higher prices. Nobody forces them to take more than e.g. a 10% shortage signal markup, but we force people on the other side to wipe the floor with their dignity.
- swearwolf 4y ago
  In many of the places that are the hardest to build in, like California, they are intentional. Those regulations were out there to slow down development as much as possible. The motivation behind doing so varied some; sometimes it was hippie’s concern about the environment, sometimes it was homeowners seeking to protect the character of their neighborhood, and sometimes it was the latter masquerading as the former. All of it was intentional.
- zemvpferreira 4y ago
  No clue, but I will tell you as a property developer myself I would love to build more, faster. Everyone I know in the business would love to build more as well. Time from project to building permit here in Lisbon can stretch to two years and vast tracts of land close to infrastructure are considered unbuildable by the municipality for no good reason. Also consider that developers need the government to work with them on roads, subways, sewers and others to be able to build. In large parts of urbanised Asia where building more housing is encouraged this problem does not exist.
- nine_k 4y ago
  > how does it come, that these procedures to get building permits have been slowed down/bureaucratized to the point that it almost seems intentional? It is absolutely intentional. Those who already have serious realty want its value to go up. They don't want any new development nearby which would compete with their realty, or otherwise lower its market value due to becoming less exclusive. Completely incidentally, these same owners are well-off people who are ready to spend a lot of time and effort talking to the city hall, sponsoring election campaigns, etc.
  - rgmerk 4y ago
    I've heard it argued that this is inaccurate in most cases; if you relaxed the regulations, the value of the properties would actually go up because you could sell to developers to build multi-family housing (townhouses or apartments) on land currently used for single-family homes. I'd also add that the financial angle is in my view sometimes overstated; a lot of people just like their neighbourhood as it is and wish it would stay exactly like that forever. And that's perfectly understandable, if unfair on all the people who didn't win the historical lottery and end up with a single-family house in a nice street in (say) Berkeley.
- marcinzm 4y ago
  >But, how does it come, that these procedures to get building permits have been slowed down/bureaucratized to the point that it almost seems intentional? NIMBY. Whomever owns the land/house right now wants it to go up in value which happens more if there is a lack of supply. >Also, the anger is not about them intentionally shortening supply - it’s about them intentionally asking and taking the higher prices. Nobody forces them to take more than e.g. a 10% shortage signal markup, but we force people on the other side to wipe the floor with their dignity. So in a free market if they sell for cost+10% then the first person they sell to will either rent it, airbnb it or sell it for market rates. The only difference is that now someone won a bit of a lottery versus the developer getting it. Of course they had to pay market rate for the land they built on so it's likely they're already selling at cost+N%.
- christkv 4y ago
  I’ve been waiting for 8 months in Spain for my building license and it’s been a constant back and forth of bullshit paperwork
naet 4y ago
There's also many companies buying up as much real estate as possible for rent-seeking which inflates home ownership costs substantially (especially in my area).
- PartiallyTyped 4y ago
  There are algos creating artificial cartels by buying apartments and raising prices.

namaria 4y ago

Landowners versus wage slaves. Nothing changed in politics over 25 centuries.

protoman3000 4y ago

I understand your willingness to attribute wrong behavior to the correct culprit. But, how does it come, that these procedures to get building permits have been slowed down/bureaucratized to the point that it almost seems intentional? Also, the anger is not about them intentionally shortening supply - it’s about them intentionally asking and taking the higher prices. Nobody forces them to take more than e.g. a 10% shortage signal markup, but we force people on the other side to wipe the floor with their dignity.

swearwolf 4y ago
In many of the places that are the hardest to build in, like California, they are intentional. Those regulations were out there to slow down development as much as possible. The motivation behind doing so varied some; sometimes it was hippie’s concern about the environment, sometimes it was homeowners seeking to protect the character of their neighborhood, and sometimes it was the latter masquerading as the former. All of it was intentional.
zemvpferreira 4y ago
No clue, but I will tell you as a property developer myself I would love to build more, faster. Everyone I know in the business would love to build more as well. Time from project to building permit here in Lisbon can stretch to two years and vast tracts of land close to infrastructure are considered unbuildable by the municipality for no good reason. Also consider that developers need the government to work with them on roads, subways, sewers and others to be able to build. In large parts of urbanised Asia where building more housing is encouraged this problem does not exist.
nine_k 4y ago
> how does it come, that these procedures to get building permits have been slowed down/bureaucratized to the point that it almost seems intentional? It is absolutely intentional. Those who already have serious realty want its value to go up. They don't want any new development nearby which would compete with their realty, or otherwise lower its market value due to becoming less exclusive. Completely incidentally, these same owners are well-off people who are ready to spend a lot of time and effort talking to the city hall, sponsoring election campaigns, etc.
- rgmerk 4y ago
  I've heard it argued that this is inaccurate in most cases; if you relaxed the regulations, the value of the properties would actually go up because you could sell to developers to build multi-family housing (townhouses or apartments) on land currently used for single-family homes. I'd also add that the financial angle is in my view sometimes overstated; a lot of people just like their neighbourhood as it is and wish it would stay exactly like that forever. And that's perfectly understandable, if unfair on all the people who didn't win the historical lottery and end up with a single-family house in a nice street in (say) Berkeley.
marcinzm 4y ago
>But, how does it come, that these procedures to get building permits have been slowed down/bureaucratized to the point that it almost seems intentional? NIMBY. Whomever owns the land/house right now wants it to go up in value which happens more if there is a lack of supply. >Also, the anger is not about them intentionally shortening supply - it’s about them intentionally asking and taking the higher prices. Nobody forces them to take more than e.g. a 10% shortage signal markup, but we force people on the other side to wipe the floor with their dignity. So in a free market if they sell for cost+10% then the first person they sell to will either rent it, airbnb it or sell it for market rates. The only difference is that now someone won a bit of a lottery versus the developer getting it. Of course they had to pay market rate for the land they built on so it's likely they're already selling at cost+N%.
christkv 4y ago
I’ve been waiting for 8 months in Spain for my building license and it’s been a constant back and forth of bullshit paperwork

naet 4y ago

There's also many companies buying up as much real estate as possible for rent-seeking which inflates home ownership costs substantially (especially in my area).

PartiallyTyped 4y ago
There are algos creating artificial cartels by buying apartments and raising prices.