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They lied about their finances when asking for money. I know that “American banks” are also often viewed as evil for selling crap (knowingly) mortgage backed s

They lied about their finances when asking for money. I know that “American banks” are also often viewed as evil for selling crap (knowingly) mortgage backed securities to German banks and we often tend to just go easy by stating “banks are evil” and that’s where the story end. However: it was American households that lived beyond their means for decades and lived in houses they could not afford and lied on (unverified) loan applications; the US government mandated more homeowners, banks provided the means and took a cut. So, more differentiated and in those “evil bank discussions” we tend to forget it was often a significant number of “poor ordinary citizens” living well beyond their means (e.g., not paying adequate taxes in Greek, having fatter pensions than others in Europe etc.)

phs318u 4y ago
You’re expecting ordinary citizens to be aware of their actions on the broader economy when their own governments are lying to them. Leaving aside the fact that most people have neither the knowledge nor the power to live other than as their system allows them to, why then doesn’t your logic apply to Germans? Why shouldn’t we blame them for continually voting in governments that kept bailing out irresponsible German banks? Stop looking for scapegoats. It takes two to tango.
- looping__lui 4y ago
  I think it is a cultural thing to be honest. Germans are obsessed with their tax filings, they love to do them to the euro etc. Walk into a German restaurant or any shop and observe tax receipts. Then look around in Greek or Italy. Germans fundamentally believe taxes are due and should be paid and the government can “mostly be trusted”. Greek seem to be more hesitant about that… Greek voted their government into place. Hence they are responsible for the actions. I’m not looking for a scapegoat. Just stating what it is: if you aren’t trustworthy, stay out of a currency and system requiring trustworthy partners.
  - phs318u 4y ago
    The Greeks are hesitant about taxes because they know from experience that their governments (of any flavour) have invariably been historically corrupt. The Germans experience (post-war at least) was not that. I doubt very much if the Germans of the Weimar republic were too fussed with their taxes. To your last point, if I'm not trustworthy, don't let me in. Are you familiar with the story of the scorpion and the frog? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog
    - looping__lui 4y ago
      … so the Greek government is made up of non-Greek !? Or the Greek politicians suddenly transform into unethical beings? Governments reflect societies. Dude, you said it’s the banks faults to trust the Greek; when I counter that I don’t trust them and wouldn’t have because they are untrustworthy you throw around fables!?

phs318u 4y ago

You’re expecting ordinary citizens to be aware of their actions on the broader economy when their own governments are lying to them. Leaving aside the fact that most people have neither the knowledge nor the power to live other than as their system allows them to, why then doesn’t your logic apply to Germans? Why shouldn’t we blame them for continually voting in governments that kept bailing out irresponsible German banks? Stop looking for scapegoats. It takes two to tango.

looping__lui 4y ago
I think it is a cultural thing to be honest. Germans are obsessed with their tax filings, they love to do them to the euro etc. Walk into a German restaurant or any shop and observe tax receipts. Then look around in Greek or Italy. Germans fundamentally believe taxes are due and should be paid and the government can “mostly be trusted”. Greek seem to be more hesitant about that… Greek voted their government into place. Hence they are responsible for the actions. I’m not looking for a scapegoat. Just stating what it is: if you aren’t trustworthy, stay out of a currency and system requiring trustworthy partners.
- phs318u 4y ago
  The Greeks are hesitant about taxes because they know from experience that their governments (of any flavour) have invariably been historically corrupt. The Germans experience (post-war at least) was not that. I doubt very much if the Germans of the Weimar republic were too fussed with their taxes. To your last point, if I'm not trustworthy, don't let me in. Are you familiar with the story of the scorpion and the frog? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog
  - looping__lui 4y ago
    … so the Greek government is made up of non-Greek !? Or the Greek politicians suddenly transform into unethical beings? Governments reflect societies. Dude, you said it’s the banks faults to trust the Greek; when I counter that I don’t trust them and wouldn’t have because they are untrustworthy you throw around fables!?