3 ms·

Disturbed sleep should IMO also be looked at - eg UARS and sleep apnea. You can sleep 8h every night and still feel crappy waking up. Maybe disturbed sleep is e

by manmal 4y ago

Disturbed sleep should IMO also be looked at - eg UARS and sleep apnea. You can sleep 8h every night and still feel crappy waking up. Maybe disturbed sleep is even worse than lack of sleep? I can feel better after 6h of good sleep than after 9h of disrupted sleep (eg when I know I‘ve been snoring, eg due to throat infection).

pedalpete 4y ago
The link isn't "disturbed sleep" necessarily. As we age, sleep naturally degrades, and that degradation is in the slow-wave sleep which drives the clearing of amyloid plaques, and tau (along with hormonal response, memory consolidation, nervous system, and more). The technology we're developing at https://soundmind.co https://soundmind.co is supporting an Alzheimer's prevention trial beginning in January '23 which is looking at the impact of slow-wave enhancement in the clearing of Amyloid plaques.
- manmal 4y ago
  By your argument, everybody would get Alzheimer‘s sooner or later. But most old people (still) don’t.
  - pedalpete 4y ago
    Not necessarily. Though Alzheimer's is an age related disease, and each 5 years increases the likelihood of developing Alzheimer's [1]. The older you get, the more likely you are to get Alzheimer's. Young people don't get Alzheimer's (with the exception of early onset, which is still in an older population). So if we extend life long enough, will everyone get it? Unlikely. Just like not everyone with high cholesterol develop heart disease. However the older we get, the worse sleep gets, the more build up of amyloids, the more likely a person is to develop Alzheimer's. Part of the reason the amyloid theory is in question is because there are people with significant build up of amyloid who do not develop Alzheimer's and there are people with little amyloid build up who do generate Alzheimer's. [1] https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/what-causes-alzheimers-disease#:~:text=Older%20age%20does%20not%20cause,older%20may%20have%20Alzheimer's%20disease https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/what-causes-alzheimers-diseas....
    - manmal 4y ago
      Ok, I still don’t understand why you think disturbed sleep is not a factor to be looked at.
      - pedalpete 4y ago
        I'm not saying "disturbed sleep", which I believe you are defining as apnea or other respiratory issue, should not be looked at. But even if it is, that does not answer the age related decline in SWS. Even if there is no other health issue, SWS declines with age. The decline of SWS is linked to increased amyloids, which is linked to Alzheimer's. Yes, apnea also has an impact on SWS, with the same relationship to amyloids and Alzheimer's, but solving the apnea does not solve the age related decline.
DoreenMichele 4y ago
To my mind, they are both a form of sleep deprivation. I would say that sleeping poorly, no matter how long you lay there, still constitutes sleep deprivation. And as people get older, they tend to both sleep less and also sleep less deeply.
- manmal 4y ago
  Maybe it’s worse than that. If eg a long term lack of REM sleep lead to Alzheimer‘s (it seems to create dementia patterns at least), and people with disturbed sleep get virtually none of that, then they might be worse off than someone with just 5h of sleep.
  - DoreenMichele 4y ago
    Having had some very serious sleep issues in the past due to health issues, I would not disagree that sleep quality matters more than how many hours you sleep per se.

by manmal 4y ago

pedalpete 4y ago

The link isn't "disturbed sleep" necessarily. As we age, sleep naturally degrades, and that degradation is in the slow-wave sleep which drives the clearing of amyloid plaques, and tau (along with hormonal response, memory consolidation, nervous system, and more). The technology we're developing at https://soundmind.co https://soundmind.co is supporting an Alzheimer's prevention trial beginning in January '23 which is looking at the impact of slow-wave enhancement in the clearing of Amyloid plaques.

manmal 4y ago
By your argument, everybody would get Alzheimer‘s sooner or later. But most old people (still) don’t.
- pedalpete 4y ago
  Not necessarily. Though Alzheimer's is an age related disease, and each 5 years increases the likelihood of developing Alzheimer's [1]. The older you get, the more likely you are to get Alzheimer's. Young people don't get Alzheimer's (with the exception of early onset, which is still in an older population). So if we extend life long enough, will everyone get it? Unlikely. Just like not everyone with high cholesterol develop heart disease. However the older we get, the worse sleep gets, the more build up of amyloids, the more likely a person is to develop Alzheimer's. Part of the reason the amyloid theory is in question is because there are people with significant build up of amyloid who do not develop Alzheimer's and there are people with little amyloid build up who do generate Alzheimer's. [1] https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/what-causes-alzheimers-disease#:~:text=Older%20age%20does%20not%20cause,older%20may%20have%20Alzheimer's%20disease https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/what-causes-alzheimers-diseas....
  - manmal 4y ago
    Ok, I still don’t understand why you think disturbed sleep is not a factor to be looked at.
    - pedalpete 4y ago
      I'm not saying "disturbed sleep", which I believe you are defining as apnea or other respiratory issue, should not be looked at. But even if it is, that does not answer the age related decline in SWS. Even if there is no other health issue, SWS declines with age. The decline of SWS is linked to increased amyloids, which is linked to Alzheimer's. Yes, apnea also has an impact on SWS, with the same relationship to amyloids and Alzheimer's, but solving the apnea does not solve the age related decline.

DoreenMichele 4y ago

To my mind, they are both a form of sleep deprivation. I would say that sleeping poorly, no matter how long you lay there, still constitutes sleep deprivation. And as people get older, they tend to both sleep less and also sleep less deeply.

manmal 4y ago
Maybe it’s worse than that. If eg a long term lack of REM sleep lead to Alzheimer‘s (it seems to create dementia patterns at least), and people with disturbed sleep get virtually none of that, then they might be worse off than someone with just 5h of sleep.
- DoreenMichele 4y ago
  Having had some very serious sleep issues in the past due to health issues, I would not disagree that sleep quality matters more than how many hours you sleep per se.