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The fact you’re not surprised that a car can drive itself is telling. And not in the positive way you want to make it seem. It’s magic man. You’re jaded, and h

The fact you’re not surprised that a car can drive itself is telling. And not in the positive way you want to make it seem. It’s magic man. You’re jaded, and have set the goal posts too far and likely increasingly far. WRT delivery timing, who amongst us had delivered a complex R&D heavy software project on time? I’m not an Elon fan boy but I respect he laid out a vision and worked to execute on it. That he didn’t hit the mark with 100% fidelity doesn’t seem like an issue to me.

TomSwirly 4y ago
> You’re jaded No, the question is whether Musk committed fraud by selling _in 2016_ self-driving car software which he is still unable to deliver in 2022, and the answer is YES whether or not you are "jaded".
- leobg 4y ago
  You are a lawyer? Or is that just your opinion based on what you personally believe fraud should mean (or on how much or little you like Musk)? Thanks for clarifying.
Veserv 4y ago
Why would you be surprised? Google did that with no safety drivers over 7 years ago [1], before Tesla even released Autopilot, after 6 years of development. The gap between that and a proper autonomous vehicle with no geofencing that is safer than even the bottom 10% of human drivers is immense and has not been achieved yet. That Tesla has achieved less in 6 years than what Waymo did in 6 years when they were trailblazing the field over a decade ago is disappointing. That Tesla executives believe their Full Self Driving product is acceptable to sell and ship to untrained customers, when systems that are nearly a decade more advanced and tens to hundreds of time better are unacceptable, is criminal. [1] https://medium.com/waymo/scenes-from-the-street-5bb77046d7ce https://medium.com/waymo/scenes-from-the-street-5bb77046d7ce
amf12 4y ago
> You’re jaded, and have set the goal posts too far and likely increasingly far. Not the original poster. Tesla has set the goal posts too far, not commenters here. And yet, they are misleading consumers about how far the goal posts are. People aren't saying Tesla's current features aren't marvelous, but that its not the magic that was promised. > WRT delivery timing, who amongst us had delivered a complex R&D heavy software project on time. Probably none of us. However, most of us haven't overpromised on the delivery time when we know that the project will take longer than what we have conveyed.

TomSwirly 4y ago

> You’re jaded No, the question is whether Musk committed fraud by selling _in 2016_ self-driving car software which he is still unable to deliver in 2022, and the answer is YES whether or not you are "jaded".

leobg 4y ago
You are a lawyer? Or is that just your opinion based on what you personally believe fraud should mean (or on how much or little you like Musk)? Thanks for clarifying.

Veserv 4y ago

Why would you be surprised? Google did that with no safety drivers over 7 years ago [1], before Tesla even released Autopilot, after 6 years of development. The gap between that and a proper autonomous vehicle with no geofencing that is safer than even the bottom 10% of human drivers is immense and has not been achieved yet. That Tesla has achieved less in 6 years than what Waymo did in 6 years when they were trailblazing the field over a decade ago is disappointing. That Tesla executives believe their Full Self Driving product is acceptable to sell and ship to untrained customers, when systems that are nearly a decade more advanced and tens to hundreds of time better are unacceptable, is criminal. [1] https://medium.com/waymo/scenes-from-the-street-5bb77046d7ce https://medium.com/waymo/scenes-from-the-street-5bb77046d7ce

amf12 4y ago

> You’re jaded, and have set the goal posts too far and likely increasingly far. Not the original poster. Tesla has set the goal posts too far, not commenters here. And yet, they are misleading consumers about how far the goal posts are. People aren't saying Tesla's current features aren't marvelous, but that its not the magic that was promised. > WRT delivery timing, who amongst us had delivered a complex R&D heavy software project on time. Probably none of us. However, most of us haven't overpromised on the delivery time when we know that the project will take longer than what we have conveyed.