7 ms·

Sam Bankman-Fried: I hope to make money to pay people back

1vuio0pswjnm7 4y ago
It's funny how Silicon Valley uses the term "make money". With rare exceptions, what these so-called entrepreneurs are doing is raising money, not making money. No one is paying for their "work". The only plausible "work" being fundraising. How much is the source code for the FTX website worth. $8 billion. Right. The market suggests it is worth zero. Computer programmers are a dime-a-dozen and free software is ubiquitous. Wait, I know. We'll charge transaction fees. Be the middleman. Innovative business plan! SBF's assets, co-mingled with his parents assets, were purchased with other people's money. Not money that was earned. Through fess or otherwise. Now those people want their money back. Where is it. IMHO, what SBF does is not "making money". It is taking money. A Silicon Valley tradition. Unprofitable companies that cannot support themselves as going concerns without the assistance of venture capital, or, here, "crypto" investor deposits. Programmers who are incapable of selling their "work" as software licenses and must be paid via venture capital.
PaulHoule 4y ago
I think i heard that $10B is missing and if there are a million victims, the mean victim lost $10,000.
mdndnsbsj 4y ago
Why is the media shamelessly running a PR campaign for him?
- jakobov 4y ago
  It's a great question. I have no idea.
- MuffinFlavored 4y ago
  Why does Spotify still host R. Kelly's music?
- RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
  It's also interesting to see the media criticism so focused on the problems with "crypto" rather than centralization and fraud. I see many people calling for more regulation on crypto, when actually nothing happened to compromise the cryptocurrency systems themselves. The issue was purely when the more centralized, corporate, venture capital backed players began to engage with and make efforts to centralize the system.
  - bmitc 4y ago
    > The issue was purely when the more centralized, corporate, venture capital backed players began to engage with and make efforts to centralize the system. That is not what happened with FTX aside from venture capitalists being involved. Centralized regulation is actually what prevented FTX from leaking into traditional markets and bringing them down as well.
- sn0w_crash 4y ago
  His mother runs a super PAC for the dems
- norwalkbear 4y ago
  His mother is highly politically connected. She ran mind the gap a highly successful democrat group. Sam himself donated millions to Democrats and antitrump republicans.
Centigonal 4y ago
god, this man is spinning so hard, his next venture should be a Beyblade[1] competitor. A digression: In tech, it's really really hard to separate spin from reality. I remember reading HN as a high schooler, and then as a college kid, being astounded by personalities like Elon Musk, Zuckerberg, and Steve Jobs. Now I'm an adult, and I can totally see people like SBF (pre-collapse) and Musk (still!) capturing the imagination of younger coders. If you're a younger reader reading this, please note my words: People like this might (might!) know how to write software, but this is not what makes them exceptional. You could be a brilliant engineer with a world-changing idea and you would never get to the scale these guys are at. Precisely two things make someone like SBF exceptional: 1: Spin. From Crypto, to Effective Altruism, to "I'm so sorry," to this latest pitch, he pivots from concept to concept and tests his theses against the market of journalists. When something resonates, he doubles down and scales, seemingly whipping immense conviction out of nowhere. You can also see this with Musk, whose primary creative contribution to Twitter so far has been to imbue it with the same "we need to work extremely hard to change the world" narrative he has seen succeed at his other companies. Musk is a marketing guy, not an engineer. SBF "never opened the code for FTX." These guys are great at making you think they're hands-on wonks who can relate to you - that is their principal talent. 2: Privilege. Spin is a very powerful tool all on its own, but you're never going to develop that kind of unshatterable confidence if you exaggerate too much as a youngster and get hurt because of it. Growing up with a lot of wealth and/or influence puts you in a situation where you can spin, spin, spin, and never face consequences. In essence, it primes the minds of people who can genuinely believe that they're helping the world while making risky bets with billions in other people's money - FTX only got as big as it did because SBF's initial bets succeeded, and he was only willing to take on that early risk because his upbringing made him feel like he had something to fall back on. Don't try to be like these people if you don't have the same set of skills. Look at your background and your skills, and figure out how you can be maximally effective/influential/happy/whatever based on what YOU bring to the table. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE4xP59fOC8&t=30s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE4xP59fOC8&t=30s
- rzazueta 4y ago
  3. The willingness to egregiously exploit others for personal gain. You touch on this a bit with the privilege answer, but the truth is those who come from privilege often see themselves as "above" others. And they encourage this worldview in everyone, largely to keep themselves above the rest. They pay themselves more even though, as you rightly point out, they only might know how to code or do the actual work that is generating value. Their "special skill" is in using their wealth, privilege, and occasionally charm to convince others to dedicate their lives to them - or at least 40 hours a week, though Musk is a greedy asshole with his bedroom offices and shit - and direct most of the proceeds from their labors toward the folks at the top who, let's be honest here, don't actually do meaningful work. SBF and his team fully exploited the investors who entrusted them with their money. I have a little less sympathy for those folks - well, really, for the folks who make the majority of their money off the backs of someone else's labor and call it "investing" - but it's still rampant exploitation. The entire system is built on it and we keep falling for it. If I want the young folks reading this to take anything away, it's that selling your lives to rich assholes will never free you. Stop competing with each other and start working together cooperatively. Shun the VCs and pool your own resources to build an organization where each member's contribution is equally valued, where decisions are made by consensus, where leaders lead and guide rather than rule and intimidate and make no more than twice the average pay for the extra workload. And any profits generated are partially retained for growth, but otherwise distributed evenly among those who contributed the labor. No need for a revolution, for new laws, for a new system of government or anything like that - stop fighting each other and competing against each other, it only serves the malignant narcissists who keep trying to tell us they are in charge. Work together, share the proceeds, build and support your communities, and focus on finding contentedness and happiness rather than the false promise of wealth and riches.
moogly 4y ago
> The average of the minimum daily wages paid to incarcerated workers for non-industry prison jobs is now 86 cents[1] That will take a while. [1]: https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2017/04/10/wages/ https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2017/04/10/wages/
bmitc 4y ago
Sounds like every other gambling addict.
g42gregory 4y ago
He will spend the rest of his life “looking for the real killer”. - I don’t know how many are old enough to remember this quote, though. :-)

It's funny how Silicon Valley uses the term "make money". With rare exceptions, what these so-called entrepreneurs are doing is raising money, not making money. No one is paying for their "work". The only plausible "work" being fundraising. How much is the source code for the FTX website worth. $8 billion. Right. The market suggests it is worth zero. Computer programmers are a dime-a-dozen and free software is ubiquitous. Wait, I know. We'll charge transaction fees. Be the middleman. Innovative business plan! SBF's assets, co-mingled with his parents assets, were purchased with other people's money. Not money that was earned. Through fess or otherwise. Now those people want their money back. Where is it. IMHO, what SBF does is not "making money". It is taking money. A Silicon Valley tradition. Unprofitable companies that cannot support themselves as going concerns without the assistance of venture capital, or, here, "crypto" investor deposits. Programmers who are incapable of selling their "work" as software licenses and must be paid via venture capital.

PaulHoule 4y ago

I think i heard that $10B is missing and if there are a million victims, the mean victim lost $10,000.

mdndnsbsj 4y ago

Why is the media shamelessly running a PR campaign for him?

jakobov 4y ago
It's a great question. I have no idea.
MuffinFlavored 4y ago
Why does Spotify still host R. Kelly's music?
RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
It's also interesting to see the media criticism so focused on the problems with "crypto" rather than centralization and fraud. I see many people calling for more regulation on crypto, when actually nothing happened to compromise the cryptocurrency systems themselves. The issue was purely when the more centralized, corporate, venture capital backed players began to engage with and make efforts to centralize the system.
- bmitc 4y ago
  > The issue was purely when the more centralized, corporate, venture capital backed players began to engage with and make efforts to centralize the system. That is not what happened with FTX aside from venture capitalists being involved. Centralized regulation is actually what prevented FTX from leaking into traditional markets and bringing them down as well.
sn0w_crash 4y ago
His mother runs a super PAC for the dems
norwalkbear 4y ago
His mother is highly politically connected. She ran mind the gap a highly successful democrat group. Sam himself donated millions to Democrats and antitrump republicans.

Centigonal 4y ago

god, this man is spinning so hard, his next venture should be a Beyblade[1] competitor. A digression: In tech, it's really really hard to separate spin from reality. I remember reading HN as a high schooler, and then as a college kid, being astounded by personalities like Elon Musk, Zuckerberg, and Steve Jobs. Now I'm an adult, and I can totally see people like SBF (pre-collapse) and Musk (still!) capturing the imagination of younger coders. If you're a younger reader reading this, please note my words: People like this might (might!) know how to write software, but this is not what makes them exceptional. You could be a brilliant engineer with a world-changing idea and you would never get to the scale these guys are at. Precisely two things make someone like SBF exceptional: 1: Spin. From Crypto, to Effective Altruism, to "I'm so sorry," to this latest pitch, he pivots from concept to concept and tests his theses against the market of journalists. When something resonates, he doubles down and scales, seemingly whipping immense conviction out of nowhere. You can also see this with Musk, whose primary creative contribution to Twitter so far has been to imbue it with the same "we need to work extremely hard to change the world" narrative he has seen succeed at his other companies. Musk is a marketing guy, not an engineer. SBF "never opened the code for FTX." These guys are great at making you think they're hands-on wonks who can relate to you - that is their principal talent. 2: Privilege. Spin is a very powerful tool all on its own, but you're never going to develop that kind of unshatterable confidence if you exaggerate too much as a youngster and get hurt because of it. Growing up with a lot of wealth and/or influence puts you in a situation where you can spin, spin, spin, and never face consequences. In essence, it primes the minds of people who can genuinely believe that they're helping the world while making risky bets with billions in other people's money - FTX only got as big as it did because SBF's initial bets succeeded, and he was only willing to take on that early risk because his upbringing made him feel like he had something to fall back on. Don't try to be like these people if you don't have the same set of skills. Look at your background and your skills, and figure out how you can be maximally effective/influential/happy/whatever based on what YOU bring to the table. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE4xP59fOC8&t=30s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE4xP59fOC8&t=30s

rzazueta 4y ago
3. The willingness to egregiously exploit others for personal gain. You touch on this a bit with the privilege answer, but the truth is those who come from privilege often see themselves as "above" others. And they encourage this worldview in everyone, largely to keep themselves above the rest. They pay themselves more even though, as you rightly point out, they only might know how to code or do the actual work that is generating value. Their "special skill" is in using their wealth, privilege, and occasionally charm to convince others to dedicate their lives to them - or at least 40 hours a week, though Musk is a greedy asshole with his bedroom offices and shit - and direct most of the proceeds from their labors toward the folks at the top who, let's be honest here, don't actually do meaningful work. SBF and his team fully exploited the investors who entrusted them with their money. I have a little less sympathy for those folks - well, really, for the folks who make the majority of their money off the backs of someone else's labor and call it "investing" - but it's still rampant exploitation. The entire system is built on it and we keep falling for it. If I want the young folks reading this to take anything away, it's that selling your lives to rich assholes will never free you. Stop competing with each other and start working together cooperatively. Shun the VCs and pool your own resources to build an organization where each member's contribution is equally valued, where decisions are made by consensus, where leaders lead and guide rather than rule and intimidate and make no more than twice the average pay for the extra workload. And any profits generated are partially retained for growth, but otherwise distributed evenly among those who contributed the labor. No need for a revolution, for new laws, for a new system of government or anything like that - stop fighting each other and competing against each other, it only serves the malignant narcissists who keep trying to tell us they are in charge. Work together, share the proceeds, build and support your communities, and focus on finding contentedness and happiness rather than the false promise of wealth and riches.

moogly 4y ago

> The average of the minimum daily wages paid to incarcerated workers for non-industry prison jobs is now 86 cents[1] That will take a while. [1]: https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2017/04/10/wages/ https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2017/04/10/wages/

bmitc 4y ago

Sounds like every other gambling addict.

g42gregory 4y ago

He will spend the rest of his life “looking for the real killer”. - I don’t know how many are old enough to remember this quote, though. :-)