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For the work and resources[1] of these mental projects, humanity could solve world hunger, probably several times over. Or build enough nuclear energy to power

For the work and resources[1] of these mental projects, humanity could solve world hunger, probably several times over. Or build enough nuclear energy to power half of Europe. (Edit: These are examples of what this much time, resourcing and manpower can do, merely examples) Oh well, I guess at least some of those hundreds of billions will end up winkled out of the Saudis by consultancies, at least. Presumably it can then trickle back up and be lent out for something more useful. I'm more surprised the Saudis haven't already slapped down a few trillion dollars worth of solar on empty desert and future-proofed their energy exports. After all, just because they sell solar energy wouldn't mean they've have to stop the oil overnight[2]. Electricity supply isn't going to be sufficient any time soon and demand isn't going anywhere but up[3]. [1]: it's easy to say "the money" but actually the money can be recycled once it's spent by the KSA royals, so it's kind of immaterial. It's the opportunity costs and resource use. [2]: energy aside, polymers and petrochemicals aren't going anywhere, even if a few supermarkets have changed to paper tomato trays [3]: moving all of the world to electrical heating, even fully leveraging ground- and air-source, and traction is going to require mind-bending amounts of installed capacity.

okasaki 4y ago
Oh well, at least it's civil engineering and not dropping bombs on people.
prepend 4y ago
Isn’t world hunger solved in the sense that it’s no longer monetary? Are there people starving due to lack of funds? That being said, these aren’t exclusive tasks. It’s not like Saudi Arabia chose between feeding people and a multi-year 170km infrastructure project. It seems odd to compare building a city in one country with feeding people all over the world.
- rdtwo 4y ago
  World hunger is a logistical problem in a high corruption system. It’s easy to find enough calories for everyone, it’s hard to get them there if only 10% goes where intended
- Oxidation 4y ago
  Technically they did. They're not the first to many that choice, but they made it. They could have set up a global food infrastructure fund and used it develop sustainable and accessible food technology to produce the food and get the calories to everyone. They didn't, and neither did anyone else, on the scale required (a few beleaguered charities, aid agencies and the UN notwithstanding) Ditto for the other example I gave, and any others you can think of.
  - boeingUH60 4y ago
    This is a frankly disingenuous way to put it. Saudi isn’t to blame for world hunger, which isn’t caused by money anyways. The primary concern of the Saudi ruling family is themselves and their citizens and last time I checked, they weren’t facing food insecurity. Countries facing widespread hunger do so due a mix of factors, including war, corruption, lack of policies promoting agriculture, etc…throwing money alone at the problem won’t solve it and at some point, these countries should be held responsible to fix their problems.
    - mkoubaa 4y ago
      The only hunger they are responsible for is in Yemen, and that's fixed by a change in policy not by funds
    - Oxidation 4y ago
      Yes, poor maligned Saudi Arabia, they've never hurt anyone and haven't maintained a death grip on the world's energy for decades by undermining alternating energy at every turn (even while embracing it for domestic use). I mean, this [1] is from this year, and that after their own pivot into domestic renewables. Just from the damage they've caused by inhibiting renewables, they're up there as some of the biggest contributors to global issues now and in the future. It's not only on them, many others are more then complicit, but they know what they've been doing. [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/21/climate/saudi-arabia-aramco-oil-solar-climate.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/21/climate/saudi-arabia-aram...
  - toast0 4y ago
mabbo 4y ago
> humanity could solve world hunger Humanity does not need any extra money to solve hunger. We have enough food. Food prices, despite recent inflation issues, are being made more cheaply than ever in human history, in quantities more than sufficient to feed us all. We just choose that some people go hungry, for being too poor.
- Oxidation 4y ago
  It's more an example of what such resources (I specifically avoided focusing on the money) could achieve, rather then air-conditioning a few cubic kilometres of desert. But compared to a hundred billion dollar motorway perhaps it's actually a better investment. Maybe they genuinely will hit on how humanity can live in zero carbon harmony with the world. It would be pretty ironic that the Saudis crack that one first and finish what Paolo Soleri started.
doliveira 4y ago
We can solve world hunger. It's just that we've collectively decided we don't care enough.
hjkl0 4y ago
But why do you think your ideas are any better or more worthy or ethical than theirs? This project addresses many important issues, it’s far from a vanity project. I think the problem here is not that any one idea would have been better than this. The scale is just out there. It’s too much. Especially on HN, it seems like it just begs the question, what would the MVP look like?
- Oxidation 4y ago
  I don't think ethics really come into it. People have already been shot and sentenced to death over this. Maybe it's a grand megaproject to save humanity and worth many many lives and I just can't see it. We will see.

okasaki 4y ago

Oh well, at least it's civil engineering and not dropping bombs on people.

prepend 4y ago

Isn’t world hunger solved in the sense that it’s no longer monetary? Are there people starving due to lack of funds? That being said, these aren’t exclusive tasks. It’s not like Saudi Arabia chose between feeding people and a multi-year 170km infrastructure project. It seems odd to compare building a city in one country with feeding people all over the world.

rdtwo 4y ago
World hunger is a logistical problem in a high corruption system. It’s easy to find enough calories for everyone, it’s hard to get them there if only 10% goes where intended
Oxidation 4y ago
Technically they did. They're not the first to many that choice, but they made it. They could have set up a global food infrastructure fund and used it develop sustainable and accessible food technology to produce the food and get the calories to everyone. They didn't, and neither did anyone else, on the scale required (a few beleaguered charities, aid agencies and the UN notwithstanding) Ditto for the other example I gave, and any others you can think of.
- boeingUH60 4y ago
  This is a frankly disingenuous way to put it. Saudi isn’t to blame for world hunger, which isn’t caused by money anyways. The primary concern of the Saudi ruling family is themselves and their citizens and last time I checked, they weren’t facing food insecurity. Countries facing widespread hunger do so due a mix of factors, including war, corruption, lack of policies promoting agriculture, etc…throwing money alone at the problem won’t solve it and at some point, these countries should be held responsible to fix their problems.
  - mkoubaa 4y ago
    The only hunger they are responsible for is in Yemen, and that's fixed by a change in policy not by funds
  - Oxidation 4y ago
    Yes, poor maligned Saudi Arabia, they've never hurt anyone and haven't maintained a death grip on the world's energy for decades by undermining alternating energy at every turn (even while embracing it for domestic use). I mean, this [1] is from this year, and that after their own pivot into domestic renewables. Just from the damage they've caused by inhibiting renewables, they're up there as some of the biggest contributors to global issues now and in the future. It's not only on them, many others are more then complicit, but they know what they've been doing. [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/21/climate/saudi-arabia-aramco-oil-solar-climate.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/21/climate/saudi-arabia-aram...
- toast0 4y ago

mabbo 4y ago

> humanity could solve world hunger Humanity does not need any extra money to solve hunger. We have enough food. Food prices, despite recent inflation issues, are being made more cheaply than ever in human history, in quantities more than sufficient to feed us all. We just choose that some people go hungry, for being too poor.

Oxidation 4y ago
It's more an example of what such resources (I specifically avoided focusing on the money) could achieve, rather then air-conditioning a few cubic kilometres of desert. But compared to a hundred billion dollar motorway perhaps it's actually a better investment. Maybe they genuinely will hit on how humanity can live in zero carbon harmony with the world. It would be pretty ironic that the Saudis crack that one first and finish what Paolo Soleri started.

doliveira 4y ago

We can solve world hunger. It's just that we've collectively decided we don't care enough.

hjkl0 4y ago

But why do you think your ideas are any better or more worthy or ethical than theirs? This project addresses many important issues, it’s far from a vanity project. I think the problem here is not that any one idea would have been better than this. The scale is just out there. It’s too much. Especially on HN, it seems like it just begs the question, what would the MVP look like?

Oxidation 4y ago
I don't think ethics really come into it. People have already been shot and sentenced to death over this. Maybe it's a grand megaproject to save humanity and worth many many lives and I just can't see it. We will see.