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Exclusive satellite images show Saudi Arabia's sci-fi megacity is well underway

76 points by t23 4y ago

kilroy123 4y ago
This whole idea is so incredibly dumb. This is the problem with unfathomably rich authoritarian rulers with unchecked power. They don't have people pushing back on their grandiose and insane ideas. A great example of this is Turkmenistan's capital, Ashgabat.
- throw_pm23 4y ago
  It's not just that no-one pushes back, but the opposite: many actively encourage it (especially the consultants and the US/EU firms who ultimately mostly benefit from it).
  - yrgulation 4y ago
    So this is america’s and europe’s fault again somehow?
    - throw_pm23 4y ago
      No, just the usual symbiosis between stupidity and greed.
  - pfortuny 4y ago
    Architects and engineers too. This is surely a very profitable business…
    - Oxidation 4y ago
      I'd almost like to have my nose in that trough (and God knows when I was looking for a job, YouTube was spamming me with Oxagon adverts enough to know there exist such jobs), but then I imagine the type of person that would gravitate to manage such a project that I'd be down-line of and think "maybe not".
lolc 4y ago
Wow, the last time I read about it, I thought it was just a wild idea. Now they're moving dirt.
zabana 4y ago
this strangely resembles the fictional city of rabi'ah, in deus ex mankind divided [0] [0]: https://deusex.fandom.com/wiki/Rabi%27ah https://deusex.fandom.com/wiki/Rabi%27ah
- wmf 4y ago
  Because MBS loves Deus Ex.
ledauphin 4y ago
I'm well aware of the explanations that this project is infeasible and not based on logic. But it still seems to me that digging foundations across the entire footprint is spreading development resources more thinly than a standard development would? Can someone better-versed in the economics of large development projects explain to me why this isn't being pursued in a more risk-reducing fashion, with a smaller section being built top-to-bottom to demonstrate its viability?
- moistly 4y ago
  A fractal design would be equally interesting (possibly more interesting) and much more efficient. I should think nature usually designs for efficiency. Leaf, fern, ant hill, watersheds might provide ideas.
- justsomehnguy 4y ago
  > in a more risk-reducing fashion, with a smaller section being built top-to-bottom to demonstrate its viability? My guess would be the time. If this would be built in 3-5 years, then with a demonstrator it would take 5 to 10 years to complete. Also - not enough (heh) money constraints.
- BurningFrog 4y ago
  The (literally) central part of the project is a railway running through the whole length. I'm no construction expert, but building the railway first so you can use it to ship material and workers seems like it could be good.
  - jaclaz 4y ago
    Not only. I have no idea on what the project details are, but - generally speaking and if possible - building an open-cut tunnel (as opposed to bored) is much cheaper (like 1/3 of the cost) and much faster (also because the works are not sequential and can thus be carried on easily in multiple stretches at the same time, given enough equipment and workers ).
- CydeWeys 4y ago
euroderf 4y ago
Someone stealing the wheels off Snowpiercer.
Oxidation 4y ago
For the work and resources[1] of these mental projects, humanity could solve world hunger, probably several times over. Or build enough nuclear energy to power half of Europe. (Edit: These are examples of what this much time, resourcing and manpower can do, merely examples) Oh well, I guess at least some of those hundreds of billions will end up winkled out of the Saudis by consultancies, at least. Presumably it can then trickle back up and be lent out for something more useful. I'm more surprised the Saudis haven't already slapped down a few trillion dollars worth of solar on empty desert and future-proofed their energy exports. After all, just because they sell solar energy wouldn't mean they've have to stop the oil overnight[2]. Electricity supply isn't going to be sufficient any time soon and demand isn't going anywhere but up[3]. [1]: it's easy to say "the money" but actually the money can be recycled once it's spent by the KSA royals, so it's kind of immaterial. It's the opportunity costs and resource use. [2]: energy aside, polymers and petrochemicals aren't going anywhere, even if a few supermarkets have changed to paper tomato trays [3]: moving all of the world to electrical heating, even fully leveraging ground- and air-source, and traction is going to require mind-bending amounts of installed capacity.
- okasaki 4y ago
  Oh well, at least it's civil engineering and not dropping bombs on people.
- prepend 4y ago
  Isn’t world hunger solved in the sense that it’s no longer monetary? Are there people starving due to lack of funds? That being said, these aren’t exclusive tasks. It’s not like Saudi Arabia chose between feeding people and a multi-year 170km infrastructure project. It seems odd to compare building a city in one country with feeding people all over the world.
  - rdtwo 4y ago
    World hunger is a logistical problem in a high corruption system. It’s easy to find enough calories for everyone, it’s hard to get them there if only 10% goes where intended
  - 4y ago
largepeepee 4y ago
Well the pictures prove the whole "line" bullshit is nothing more than marketing if there is that much boring infrastructure already around it from the start. Aren't we just falling for their plans for giving it that much media attention?
metadat 4y ago
What are the green and black striped rectangles? https://wp.technologyreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/2022-12-09-09_41_42-Soar-_-Discover-your-Earth.png https://wp.technologyreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/2... Edit: Thanks for the info, you are super quick! I have a follow-up question: Why build it 170km long and only 0.2km wide? This seems super inefficient, compared to making it shorter and wider. What's the advantage? Lots of things will be (unnecessarily) far apart. Won't this be annoying for those living in this archeology?
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  I don't think it's as dumb as some people claim. The basic premise is that everything could run off of a single mainline/bus. I think the inefficiencies are overstated and gains are generally underrated.
  - BoGoToTo 4y ago
    MBS plays Factorio confirmed?
    - kortex 4y ago
      I use a very linear mall style layout. But the difference in my design is each module juts out orthogonal to the main bus and tiles linearly. So as the bus grows, each "spine" grows outward to increase capacity. But it can't continue indefinitely - eventually the module-bus bandwith bottleneck dominates, and I have to start a totally separate bus in parallel. Neom will run into the same problem, except without the ability to first scale laterally. There's a reason logistical systems aren't a straight fuckin line. Cities are logistics machines. I think the average Factorio noob has put more thought into layout design than the architects of Neom. I can think off many ideas off the top of my head which would be striking, revolutionary, and less dumb than a line when it comes to logistics. Hell, even a circle (of limited width) would be better, as your worst case transit time immediately is cut in half.
  - cma 4y ago
    Say it is a cross shape instead with one interchange/ hub in the middle. Now everywhere is like half as far away as before. Continue adding spokes. Now we're back to a filled circle with a central core more like traditional cities and I bet buildings would end up much taller in the core.
JumpinJack_Cash 4y ago
Well underway is a bit of a stretch. They dug a trench in the sand, which is not such a tall order given the consistency of sand. It's also the reason why they can stick a straw in the sand and oil comes out. The only big trademark Core infrastructure project made in Saudi up to now has been the Abraj-Al-Bait [0], spearheaded by the Bin Laden Group [1] (founded in 1931 by Osama Bin Laden's father) which is something comparable to the recent CityCenter Las Vegas Development. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraj_Al_Bait https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraj_Al_Bait [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Binladin_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Binladin_Group
- input_sh 4y ago
  > They dug a trench in the sand And that trench is maybe 5-7 kilometers long (it's supposed to be 170). I never doubted they'll build something, but until they reach that something the original presentation will get dumbed down a few times. It's still gonna be a long (but definitely not 170 kilometers) line with a metro and no cars, but that's about it.
enriquto 4y ago
There does not seem to be anything "exclusive" about these images. They look like regular worldview 3 images that anybody can buy. From TFA: > The strange gap in imagery raises questions about who gets to access high-res satellite technology. And if the largest urban construction site on the planet doesn’t appear on Google Maps, what else can’t we see? This is ridiculous. Commercial satellite images are sold everyday to thousands of buyers. You only need a credit card. Google maps is just not updated immediately with all these images that people buy. I'm surprised at the low quality of these MIT "reporters".
- selimthegrim 4y ago
  They are very loosely affiliated with MIT- they just buy the brand at this point
- gerbler 4y ago
  Spot on
- hef19898 4y ago
  Lately I see this dosconnect from "reality" (for lack of a better word, in your example how satelite images are bought and how Google maps works) and people writing about it without a clue or interest to actually investigate (using outdated Google maps data to formulate a conspiracy theory). And it is not just journalism, it is everywhere, I see it at work (between seasoned people and those fesh from university or those that drank too much founder kool aid), in politics, you name it. I find that tebdency rather troubeling. I think it is also one of the reasons why a majority of people have no idea how the infrastucture of world works, from electricity over supply chains to the internet and basically everything in between.
- boxed 4y ago
  Apple maps still show a construction site near where I live where there has been houses for several years. WhAt ARe thE CIA HiDIng in thIS SwEDIsh suBURb?!
albertopv 4y ago
Insane Saudi Arabia is still considered a developing country.
- rurp 4y ago
  I know, they even let women drive now!
- BurningFrog 4y ago
  Developed countries have an educated professional population and a diverse market economy. Saudi Arabia has billions raining from the sky. Both make you rich, but the societies function very differently.
- throwaway6734 4y ago
  Does Saudi Arabia produce anything outside of oil?
  - oblak 4y ago
    Pretty sure last bubble gum I bought was made in SA. I remember because it was a while ago and it was the sole reason I got them in the first place. Got curious. There is plenty of near eastern stuff around, if one looks, but that one felt rare enough to me. I am not even a collector of any kind.
  - selimthegrim 4y ago
    Date pastries and dates?
sandworm101 4y ago
So many of these articles, and none address the realities of Saudi/Gulf family power structures. For the king/MBS to remain in power they need to keep the powerful families on side. That means giving them money, enough money that they don't get too jealous of the king's money and decide they should be king. But handing them money without directing how they spend it will lead to ruin. They will set themselves up as new powers, to the point that they will one day be buying weapons and influence to overthrow you. You have to keep them busy doing other things than plotting your doom. You give them jobs. Rich Saudi families own and run the construction firms building these silly projects. The up-and-coming sons of these families are called "investors" and "developers" of mega projects. They go to nice schools and spend their working lives consulting with architects and engineers. They hire famous westerners (Beckham) to promote their pet projects (soccer/golf tournaments). That is way way better than them consulting with militants, extremists and mercenaries. It is better than them running around the world building their own power bases. Call these projects wasteful and inefficient all you want. They are doing exactly what they are designed to do: keep the king from being overthrown. They are the Saudi version of Louise XIV's Versailles.
- personjerry 4y ago
  This is an interesting take, do you have any recommended readings?
  - sandworm101 4y ago
    The Kingdom: Arabia and the House of Sa'Ud. Robert Lacey - 1982 Also any and all European history dealing with Kings and royal houses. They are all basically the same: Property, religion, upstart sons and a king trying to stay king.
    - hef19898 4y ago
      Power dynamics never really change, do they? The currency in which power is measured, and the eules by which they play are all that changes. And the more things change, the more they stay the same.
relwin 4y ago
Thunderf00t has an entertaining analysis on the absurdity of NEOM: https://youtu.be/rB_X5ZUcZlE https://youtu.be/rB_X5ZUcZlE
stavros 4y ago
How hard is it to obtain aerial photos of something? Surely, a $300 drone plane can take photos of things tens of km away undetected?
yabones 4y ago
This will end exactly the same way as the Jeddah tower. I'll eat my shoe if they come anywhere close to "completion" on this project. It's such a profoundly stupid way to spend half a trillion dollars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeddah_Tower https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeddah_Tower
unity1001 4y ago
This is a good project. The way we currently run our living spaces is extremely inefficient. We distribute people to many disparate neighborhoods, and - in the case of the US - gasp suburbs, and then face the problems which having to provide all the infrastructure, supply networks, transportation to those places create. One unmistakable example of this is traffic congestion and how a lot of energy, productivity and even more importantly, the precious time of people are lost while going from place to place, leave aside in congestions. The people are having to do this because it is just how things are, not because it is the best thing that mankind should have been doing. The systems logic that they have in this project makes sense: A more efficient structure would definitely make running a large urban region much more effective. And Saudi Arabia has a lot of flat, uninterrupted, unused space that is largely outside the earthquake, storm and other disaster zones, so a big linear structure can be easily workable there. The line structure seems to be well calculated - its long, but its very thin. Meaning that they plan to run everything one single, uninterrupted, well, line of infra. Which totally makes sense from an engineering standpoint. If it was a vanity project or wasteful indulgence as some claim, the systems side of this would not be made as simple as this and it would be something more grand. Moreover, the linear building concept that apparently does not seem to inspire anyone judging from the comments, is another evidence that it was chosen for its systems efficiency, and not awe factor or tourism value. Again, its an interesting project. Even if they can pull off a fraction of it and succeed in developing a large, uninterrupted urbanization that is efficient, it can make a great breakthrough in terms of urban technology.
- emkoemko 4y ago
  how is a line more efficient then a circle?
  - unity1001 4y ago
    A circle is literally a bent line. It could work as well. However, you would get a bent line in the end. Aside from the problems that running an infra on a circular shape with bent curves would bring, it could work. A line would be just easier.
OtherwiseBenign 4y ago
At the risk of invoking Godwin's Law, this reminds me of a 3-mile building that was built on the German island of Rügen 1936-1939 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prora https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prora
karmakurtisaani 4y ago
To add to the possible justifications for this project, the YouTube channel Economics Explained made a nice video on how these insane megaprojects can make sense. Essentially, they are meant to be long and expensive just to attract enough foreign companies to establish permanent presence in the country. Once that happens, the idea is that they eventually start to contribute to the SA economy independently, helping them move on from oil only economy. It makes sense if you consider that when you have oil, it will make your currency strong, so exporting goods is expensive and that makes developing other industry difficult. Also, investments, people and other resources in your country will be all mainly directed towards oil, since that's where the profits are largest. So to escape this trap, you have to basically do something rather crazy.
T-A 4y ago
> at least one private company seemed to have stopped taking high-resolution pictures of The Line’s site sometime in March. It's almost as if something happened in March which caused Maxar to focus on some other area of the world. https://blog.maxar.com/for-a-better-world/2022/aviation-week-names-maxar-a-2022-laureate-award-winner https://blog.maxar.com/for-a-better-world/2022/aviation-week...
- dogma1138 4y ago
  Can private earth observing satellites change orbits for full mission retasking? I would have assumed they only have enough fuel for maintaining orbit and station keeping and their coverage areas are pretty much static from the point they are inserted into their operational orbit.
  - T-A 4y ago
    Maxar says it covers "60% of Earth’s surface monthly" [1]. But it's one thing to fly over a place, another to allocate bandwidth, compute and analysts to beam down, process and analyze images of it. [1] https://www.maxar.com/constellation https://www.maxar.com/constellation
LatteLazy 4y ago
Please look over there while I run a crazy theocracy and steal "my" people's oil wealth to squander on booze and fast cars while they live like it's the 1400s.

76 points by t23 4y ago

This whole idea is so incredibly dumb. This is the problem with unfathomably rich authoritarian rulers with unchecked power. They don't have people pushing back on their grandiose and insane ideas. A great example of this is Turkmenistan's capital, Ashgabat.

throw_pm23 4y ago
It's not just that no-one pushes back, but the opposite: many actively encourage it (especially the consultants and the US/EU firms who ultimately mostly benefit from it).
- yrgulation 4y ago
  So this is america’s and europe’s fault again somehow?
  - throw_pm23 4y ago
    No, just the usual symbiosis between stupidity and greed.
- pfortuny 4y ago
  Architects and engineers too. This is surely a very profitable business…
  - Oxidation 4y ago
    I'd almost like to have my nose in that trough (and God knows when I was looking for a job, YouTube was spamming me with Oxagon adverts enough to know there exist such jobs), but then I imagine the type of person that would gravitate to manage such a project that I'd be down-line of and think "maybe not".

lolc 4y ago

Wow, the last time I read about it, I thought it was just a wild idea. Now they're moving dirt.

zabana 4y ago

this strangely resembles the fictional city of rabi'ah, in deus ex mankind divided [0] [0]: https://deusex.fandom.com/wiki/Rabi%27ah https://deusex.fandom.com/wiki/Rabi%27ah

wmf 4y ago
Because MBS loves Deus Ex.

ledauphin 4y ago

I'm well aware of the explanations that this project is infeasible and not based on logic. But it still seems to me that digging foundations across the entire footprint is spreading development resources more thinly than a standard development would? Can someone better-versed in the economics of large development projects explain to me why this isn't being pursued in a more risk-reducing fashion, with a smaller section being built top-to-bottom to demonstrate its viability?

moistly 4y ago
A fractal design would be equally interesting (possibly more interesting) and much more efficient. I should think nature usually designs for efficiency. Leaf, fern, ant hill, watersheds might provide ideas.
justsomehnguy 4y ago
> in a more risk-reducing fashion, with a smaller section being built top-to-bottom to demonstrate its viability? My guess would be the time. If this would be built in 3-5 years, then with a demonstrator it would take 5 to 10 years to complete. Also - not enough (heh) money constraints.
BurningFrog 4y ago
The (literally) central part of the project is a railway running through the whole length. I'm no construction expert, but building the railway first so you can use it to ship material and workers seems like it could be good.
- jaclaz 4y ago
  Not only. I have no idea on what the project details are, but - generally speaking and if possible - building an open-cut tunnel (as opposed to bored) is much cheaper (like 1/3 of the cost) and much faster (also because the works are not sequential and can thus be carried on easily in multiple stretches at the same time, given enough equipment and workers ).
CydeWeys 4y ago

euroderf 4y ago

Someone stealing the wheels off Snowpiercer.

Oxidation 4y ago

For the work and resources[1] of these mental projects, humanity could solve world hunger, probably several times over. Or build enough nuclear energy to power half of Europe. (Edit: These are examples of what this much time, resourcing and manpower can do, merely examples) Oh well, I guess at least some of those hundreds of billions will end up winkled out of the Saudis by consultancies, at least. Presumably it can then trickle back up and be lent out for something more useful. I'm more surprised the Saudis haven't already slapped down a few trillion dollars worth of solar on empty desert and future-proofed their energy exports. After all, just because they sell solar energy wouldn't mean they've have to stop the oil overnight[2]. Electricity supply isn't going to be sufficient any time soon and demand isn't going anywhere but up[3]. [1]: it's easy to say "the money" but actually the money can be recycled once it's spent by the KSA royals, so it's kind of immaterial. It's the opportunity costs and resource use. [2]: energy aside, polymers and petrochemicals aren't going anywhere, even if a few supermarkets have changed to paper tomato trays [3]: moving all of the world to electrical heating, even fully leveraging ground- and air-source, and traction is going to require mind-bending amounts of installed capacity.

okasaki 4y ago
Oh well, at least it's civil engineering and not dropping bombs on people.
prepend 4y ago
Isn’t world hunger solved in the sense that it’s no longer monetary? Are there people starving due to lack of funds? That being said, these aren’t exclusive tasks. It’s not like Saudi Arabia chose between feeding people and a multi-year 170km infrastructure project. It seems odd to compare building a city in one country with feeding people all over the world.
- rdtwo 4y ago
  World hunger is a logistical problem in a high corruption system. It’s easy to find enough calories for everyone, it’s hard to get them there if only 10% goes where intended
- 4y ago

largepeepee 4y ago

Well the pictures prove the whole "line" bullshit is nothing more than marketing if there is that much boring infrastructure already around it from the start. Aren't we just falling for their plans for giving it that much media attention?

metadat 4y ago

What are the green and black striped rectangles? https://wp.technologyreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/2022-12-09-09_41_42-Soar-_-Discover-your-Earth.png https://wp.technologyreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/2... Edit: Thanks for the info, you are super quick! I have a follow-up question: Why build it 170km long and only 0.2km wide? This seems super inefficient, compared to making it shorter and wider. What's the advantage? Lots of things will be (unnecessarily) far apart. Won't this be annoying for those living in this archeology?

s1artibartfast 4y ago
I don't think it's as dumb as some people claim. The basic premise is that everything could run off of a single mainline/bus. I think the inefficiencies are overstated and gains are generally underrated.
- BoGoToTo 4y ago
  MBS plays Factorio confirmed?
  - kortex 4y ago
    I use a very linear mall style layout. But the difference in my design is each module juts out orthogonal to the main bus and tiles linearly. So as the bus grows, each "spine" grows outward to increase capacity. But it can't continue indefinitely - eventually the module-bus bandwith bottleneck dominates, and I have to start a totally separate bus in parallel. Neom will run into the same problem, except without the ability to first scale laterally. There's a reason logistical systems aren't a straight fuckin line. Cities are logistics machines. I think the average Factorio noob has put more thought into layout design than the architects of Neom. I can think off many ideas off the top of my head which would be striking, revolutionary, and less dumb than a line when it comes to logistics. Hell, even a circle (of limited width) would be better, as your worst case transit time immediately is cut in half.
- cma 4y ago
  Say it is a cross shape instead with one interchange/ hub in the middle. Now everywhere is like half as far away as before. Continue adding spokes. Now we're back to a filled circle with a central core more like traditional cities and I bet buildings would end up much taller in the core.

JumpinJack_Cash 4y ago

Well underway is a bit of a stretch. They dug a trench in the sand, which is not such a tall order given the consistency of sand. It's also the reason why they can stick a straw in the sand and oil comes out. The only big trademark Core infrastructure project made in Saudi up to now has been the Abraj-Al-Bait [0], spearheaded by the Bin Laden Group [1] (founded in 1931 by Osama Bin Laden's father) which is something comparable to the recent CityCenter Las Vegas Development. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraj_Al_Bait https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraj_Al_Bait [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Binladin_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Binladin_Group

input_sh 4y ago
> They dug a trench in the sand And that trench is maybe 5-7 kilometers long (it's supposed to be 170). I never doubted they'll build something, but until they reach that something the original presentation will get dumbed down a few times. It's still gonna be a long (but definitely not 170 kilometers) line with a metro and no cars, but that's about it.

enriquto 4y ago

There does not seem to be anything "exclusive" about these images. They look like regular worldview 3 images that anybody can buy. From TFA: > The strange gap in imagery raises questions about who gets to access high-res satellite technology. And if the largest urban construction site on the planet doesn’t appear on Google Maps, what else can’t we see? This is ridiculous. Commercial satellite images are sold everyday to thousands of buyers. You only need a credit card. Google maps is just not updated immediately with all these images that people buy. I'm surprised at the low quality of these MIT "reporters".

selimthegrim 4y ago
They are very loosely affiliated with MIT- they just buy the brand at this point
gerbler 4y ago
Spot on
hef19898 4y ago
Lately I see this dosconnect from "reality" (for lack of a better word, in your example how satelite images are bought and how Google maps works) and people writing about it without a clue or interest to actually investigate (using outdated Google maps data to formulate a conspiracy theory). And it is not just journalism, it is everywhere, I see it at work (between seasoned people and those fesh from university or those that drank too much founder kool aid), in politics, you name it. I find that tebdency rather troubeling. I think it is also one of the reasons why a majority of people have no idea how the infrastucture of world works, from electricity over supply chains to the internet and basically everything in between.
boxed 4y ago
Apple maps still show a construction site near where I live where there has been houses for several years. WhAt ARe thE CIA HiDIng in thIS SwEDIsh suBURb?!

albertopv 4y ago

Insane Saudi Arabia is still considered a developing country.

rurp 4y ago
I know, they even let women drive now!
BurningFrog 4y ago
Developed countries have an educated professional population and a diverse market economy. Saudi Arabia has billions raining from the sky. Both make you rich, but the societies function very differently.
throwaway6734 4y ago
Does Saudi Arabia produce anything outside of oil?
- oblak 4y ago
  Pretty sure last bubble gum I bought was made in SA. I remember because it was a while ago and it was the sole reason I got them in the first place. Got curious. There is plenty of near eastern stuff around, if one looks, but that one felt rare enough to me. I am not even a collector of any kind.
- selimthegrim 4y ago
  Date pastries and dates?

sandworm101 4y ago

So many of these articles, and none address the realities of Saudi/Gulf family power structures. For the king/MBS to remain in power they need to keep the powerful families on side. That means giving them money, enough money that they don't get too jealous of the king's money and decide they should be king. But handing them money without directing how they spend it will lead to ruin. They will set themselves up as new powers, to the point that they will one day be buying weapons and influence to overthrow you. You have to keep them busy doing other things than plotting your doom. You give them jobs. Rich Saudi families own and run the construction firms building these silly projects. The up-and-coming sons of these families are called "investors" and "developers" of mega projects. They go to nice schools and spend their working lives consulting with architects and engineers. They hire famous westerners (Beckham) to promote their pet projects (soccer/golf tournaments). That is way way better than them consulting with militants, extremists and mercenaries. It is better than them running around the world building their own power bases. Call these projects wasteful and inefficient all you want. They are doing exactly what they are designed to do: keep the king from being overthrown. They are the Saudi version of Louise XIV's Versailles.

personjerry 4y ago
This is an interesting take, do you have any recommended readings?
- sandworm101 4y ago
  The Kingdom: Arabia and the House of Sa'Ud. Robert Lacey - 1982 Also any and all European history dealing with Kings and royal houses. They are all basically the same: Property, religion, upstart sons and a king trying to stay king.
  - hef19898 4y ago
    Power dynamics never really change, do they? The currency in which power is measured, and the eules by which they play are all that changes. And the more things change, the more they stay the same.

relwin 4y ago

Thunderf00t has an entertaining analysis on the absurdity of NEOM: https://youtu.be/rB_X5ZUcZlE https://youtu.be/rB_X5ZUcZlE

stavros 4y ago

How hard is it to obtain aerial photos of something? Surely, a $300 drone plane can take photos of things tens of km away undetected?

yabones 4y ago

This will end exactly the same way as the Jeddah tower. I'll eat my shoe if they come anywhere close to "completion" on this project. It's such a profoundly stupid way to spend half a trillion dollars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeddah_Tower https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeddah_Tower

unity1001 4y ago

This is a good project. The way we currently run our living spaces is extremely inefficient. We distribute people to many disparate neighborhoods, and - in the case of the US - gasp suburbs, and then face the problems which having to provide all the infrastructure, supply networks, transportation to those places create. One unmistakable example of this is traffic congestion and how a lot of energy, productivity and even more importantly, the precious time of people are lost while going from place to place, leave aside in congestions. The people are having to do this because it is just how things are, not because it is the best thing that mankind should have been doing. The systems logic that they have in this project makes sense: A more efficient structure would definitely make running a large urban region much more effective. And Saudi Arabia has a lot of flat, uninterrupted, unused space that is largely outside the earthquake, storm and other disaster zones, so a big linear structure can be easily workable there. The line structure seems to be well calculated - its long, but its very thin. Meaning that they plan to run everything one single, uninterrupted, well, line of infra. Which totally makes sense from an engineering standpoint. If it was a vanity project or wasteful indulgence as some claim, the systems side of this would not be made as simple as this and it would be something more grand. Moreover, the linear building concept that apparently does not seem to inspire anyone judging from the comments, is another evidence that it was chosen for its systems efficiency, and not awe factor or tourism value. Again, its an interesting project. Even if they can pull off a fraction of it and succeed in developing a large, uninterrupted urbanization that is efficient, it can make a great breakthrough in terms of urban technology.

emkoemko 4y ago
how is a line more efficient then a circle?
- unity1001 4y ago
  A circle is literally a bent line. It could work as well. However, you would get a bent line in the end. Aside from the problems that running an infra on a circular shape with bent curves would bring, it could work. A line would be just easier.

OtherwiseBenign 4y ago

At the risk of invoking Godwin's Law, this reminds me of a 3-mile building that was built on the German island of Rügen 1936-1939 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prora https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prora

karmakurtisaani 4y ago

To add to the possible justifications for this project, the YouTube channel Economics Explained made a nice video on how these insane megaprojects can make sense. Essentially, they are meant to be long and expensive just to attract enough foreign companies to establish permanent presence in the country. Once that happens, the idea is that they eventually start to contribute to the SA economy independently, helping them move on from oil only economy. It makes sense if you consider that when you have oil, it will make your currency strong, so exporting goods is expensive and that makes developing other industry difficult. Also, investments, people and other resources in your country will be all mainly directed towards oil, since that's where the profits are largest. So to escape this trap, you have to basically do something rather crazy.

T-A 4y ago

> at least one private company seemed to have stopped taking high-resolution pictures of The Line’s site sometime in March. It's almost as if something happened in March which caused Maxar to focus on some other area of the world. https://blog.maxar.com/for-a-better-world/2022/aviation-week-names-maxar-a-2022-laureate-award-winner https://blog.maxar.com/for-a-better-world/2022/aviation-week...

dogma1138 4y ago
Can private earth observing satellites change orbits for full mission retasking? I would have assumed they only have enough fuel for maintaining orbit and station keeping and their coverage areas are pretty much static from the point they are inserted into their operational orbit.
- T-A 4y ago
  Maxar says it covers "60% of Earth’s surface monthly" [1]. But it's one thing to fly over a place, another to allocate bandwidth, compute and analysts to beam down, process and analyze images of it. [1] https://www.maxar.com/constellation https://www.maxar.com/constellation

LatteLazy 4y ago

Please look over there while I run a crazy theocracy and steal "my" people's oil wealth to squander on booze and fast cars while they live like it's the 1400s.