3 ms·

This counting system is fascinating! I wrote an article about this as well: https://maximumeffort.substack.com/p/a-brief-history-of-dik https://maximumeffort.s

This counting system is fascinating! I wrote an article about this as well: https://maximumeffort.substack.com/p/a-brief-history-of-dik https://maximumeffort.substack.com/p/a-brief-history-of-dik

MerelyMortal 4y ago
Yours is more informative, thank you!
version_five 4y ago
Thank you for sharing that, very interesting, especially the hickory dickory dock bit. I'm going to see if there is somewhere I can buy a poster of that sheep chart. Edit: apparently we can - https://www.beccahallillustration.co.uk/product-page/print-cumbrian-dialect-numbers https://www.beccahallillustration.co.uk/product-page/print-c...
throwoutway 4y ago
You mark number 4 as Pethera, but in the image/poster it is Methera. Is there a discrepancy? Good post btw !
- talideon 4y ago
  It's not, not really. Consider where you pronounce 'm' and 'p': they're both bilabial consonants. It's pretty typical in Celtic languages to have initial 'consonant mutations' where a sound in a preceding word has got lost over time, but it affected the pronunciation of the word that followed it in a predictable fashion, which lead it being grammaticalised. An example from Irish would be 'capall', which means 'horse', and 'na gcapall', meaning 'of the horses', as the genitive plural of 'capall' is also 'capall', but when you use the plural definite article with it, the pronunciation of the first letter changes from a /k/ to a /g/, and Irish marks this by preceding the 'c' with a 'g' (so you can see the underlying word). Welsh and other members of the Brythonic family of Celtic languages have something similar, which can lead to 'p' and 'b' changing into 'mh' (an /m/ sound, but unvoiced) and 'm' respectively. This is called 'nasal mutation'. So, what you're looking at is a possible remnant of nasal mutation in Cumbric.
- bradrn 4y ago
  There’s lots and lots of different systems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yan_tan_tethera#Systems_by_region https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yan_tan_tethera#Systems_by_reg.... Some have methera, some have pethera, many have something else.

This counting system is fascinating! I wrote an article about this as well: https://maximumeffort.substack.com/p/a-brief-history-of-dik https://maximumeffort.substack.com/p/a-brief-history-of-dik

MerelyMortal 4y ago

Yours is more informative, thank you!

version_five 4y ago

Thank you for sharing that, very interesting, especially the hickory dickory dock bit. I'm going to see if there is somewhere I can buy a poster of that sheep chart. Edit: apparently we can - https://www.beccahallillustration.co.uk/product-page/print-cumbrian-dialect-numbers https://www.beccahallillustration.co.uk/product-page/print-c...

throwoutway 4y ago

You mark number 4 as Pethera, but in the image/poster it is Methera. Is there a discrepancy? Good post btw !

talideon 4y ago
It's not, not really. Consider where you pronounce 'm' and 'p': they're both bilabial consonants. It's pretty typical in Celtic languages to have initial 'consonant mutations' where a sound in a preceding word has got lost over time, but it affected the pronunciation of the word that followed it in a predictable fashion, which lead it being grammaticalised. An example from Irish would be 'capall', which means 'horse', and 'na gcapall', meaning 'of the horses', as the genitive plural of 'capall' is also 'capall', but when you use the plural definite article with it, the pronunciation of the first letter changes from a /k/ to a /g/, and Irish marks this by preceding the 'c' with a 'g' (so you can see the underlying word). Welsh and other members of the Brythonic family of Celtic languages have something similar, which can lead to 'p' and 'b' changing into 'mh' (an /m/ sound, but unvoiced) and 'm' respectively. This is called 'nasal mutation'. So, what you're looking at is a possible remnant of nasal mutation in Cumbric.
bradrn 4y ago
There’s lots and lots of different systems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yan_tan_tethera#Systems_by_region https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yan_tan_tethera#Systems_by_reg.... Some have methera, some have pethera, many have something else.