4 ms·

Devil's advocate here: The idea that godaddy appears to be intentionally stalling transfers is pure speculation. Not saying that they're incapable of doing it,

by samlev 15y ago

Devil's advocate here: The idea that godaddy appears to be intentionally stalling transfers is pure speculation. Not saying that they're incapable of doing it, but that whole "don't attribute to malice" thing. Let's not turn this into another ugly internet lynch-mob. Just move your domains, and be done with it. Namecheap (and others) look like they're more than happy to help out all their new customers.

bountie 15y ago
What's the motive to make this process painful? Would people really say Oh screw it, I'll just stay with GoDAddy? Ive never transferred a domain before so I don't know what the process or delay is normally like
- kennystone 15y ago
  Most people won't understand it is 'go daddy' hijacking the process and may get frustrated by delays. One guy in this thread thought it was a name cheap problem, for example.
- tgrass 15y ago
  This is standard practice to increase the friction of unsubscribing. How many clicks does it take you to logout of Facebook or Google...and see if your grandmother could even figure out how.
  - djeikyb 15y ago
    Two clicks. Google is easy: click your name, click sign out. Facebook is slightly harder: click the menu triangle in the upper right hand corner, click sign out.
    - jey 15y ago
      I think he meant to say "close your account" rather than "log out".
      - djeikyb 15y ago
        Oh. That makes sense. My bullshit filter kicked in before I finished interpreting the post as a whole.
- mikeash 15y ago
  Yes, people would. Obviously, the people who are really adamant about switching away won't be deterred by this, but there will be a lot of people who are less forceful about it who might well just give up if it's too hard.
- r00fus 15y ago
  > Would people really say Oh screw it, I'll just stay with GoDAddy? Yes, actually they would. Or more likely, they intend to, only have small time slices and take weeks or months longer to leave. Aggregated across millions of subscribers, and this adds up to big $$$, some of which can pay a high-priced spokesmodel to defray a large amount of the downsides.
tristanperry 15y ago
GoDaddy have breached ICANN regulations before (e.g. after updating contact information, 'resetting' the 60 day no-transfer-out rule). I'm not surprised in the slightest that they're doing it again.
- Caged 15y ago
  If this is indeed against ICANN policy, they're still in breach of this rule. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/602885/godaddy.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/602885/godaddy.png
- cperciva 15y ago
  after updating contact information, 'resetting' the 60 day no-transfer-out rule I feel dirty saying this, but I'm with GoDaddy on this one. It might be a violation of ICANN regulations, but it's also a really important step for protecting against domain hijacking.
  - ohashi 15y ago
    I really disagree, as someone who has done domain names professionally for almost a decade. How many registrants are going to notice their whois info changed? Nothing changes with whois info in terms of functionality. 60 days, no big deal. Besides, if I already have your account compromised, I probably have your email, that's how they are linked in the first place. It wouldn't be too hard in most systems to just initiate the transfer and hide that info from the user, or simply lock them out of their email. You think their domain registrar is the first place they will call when their email stops working? HELL NO. They have bigger concerns. They are using a special email address for whois stuff? How often you think they check that? Most people, not all that often. If I didn't subscribe to updates on my whois info from a third party, I wouldn't notice either, and it's my damn job. We can't implement mindless policies to 'protect' people from themselves unless there are real tangible benefits to it and it's not simply self-serving. Of the major registrars, GoDaddy is the only one I know of implementing this policy and they've been hijacked numerous times. Their whois privacy even had a hole in it for years that is now fixed. It's not stopping the hijackings. Other registrars without that policy have better track records preventing domain hijackings.
untog 15y ago
I was extremely surprised at the tone of the blog post, given that it doesn't really confirm much: "we suspect that this competitor is thwarting efforts" "GoDaddy appears to be" Suspect, appears to be... none of these are exactly definitive terms.
- ohashi 15y ago
  In the domain industry, that's par for the course. You can almost never get 'proof' of what they are doing. You can just see patterns and changes. You can hypothesize based on trying something again and again, manipulating the inputs and seeing what changes. Sounds a bit like a science experiment? Often seems that way. There's a ton of NDAs going to all sorts of people and companies to do different stuff. The inner workings of a lot of stuff is never legally allowed to be talked about publicly. So you end up with this type of hypothesis. The actual transfer process can be nearly instant given the EPP code and the registrar's permission. What happens in between is somewhat fuzzy and I am not sure there are clear rules on how each company handles it. The longest I've seen (that I recall) is 7 days, but I could be wrong.
- chc 15y ago
  What do you expect? "Our spies among GoDaddy's top executives have discovered…"? "Our team of highly trained accredited psychics has been informed by the spirits that…"? NameCheap is no more capable of knowing GoDaddy's inner workings than we are. They can only tell us what they're seeing and draw logical conclusions from those things.
newobj 15y ago
There's a fine line between devil's advocate and astro turfer.
- jerf 15y ago
  I have nothing to do with any domain name company or interest, beyond being a consumer (as many here) of a company not related to any in the story. I endorse samlev's caution. Given past history with GoDaddy, I'm willing to believe they're not being above board, but I'd like more evidence before I join the lynch mob. Let's be a bit less in a hurry to sling around accusations of astroturfing, OK?
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    No, I have to side with newobj here. People protesting "internet mobs" seems to have become some sort of strange meme over the past few days/weeks. I don't know where the idea came from, but I've been seeing it exclusively used against anti-SOPA/godaddy people. And I am seeing it primarily from accounts that are younger than 2 or so months..... Seriously people, this isn't medieval mob justice. We're not burning down a widow's home. Worst case scenario if we're wrong is a few stock tickers dip for a few days. Cut it out with this "omg mob justice" shit.
- samlev 15y ago
  Well. You got me. I'm a big corporate shill for GoDaddy. I've been sent here to turn popular opinion back in their favour. Good going, detective, now that you've outed me, I'll lose my job, and who will feed all of my 58 children? Seriously, though, I have no connection with GoDaddy, I'm just very sceptical of the "GoDaddy will attempt to repair their reputation by actively making life harder for people who already don't like them" idea. Sure, they may well be playing games to attempt to make it too hard for people to leave, but I think that it's much more likely that they have rate-limiters, and anti-spam/fraud protection working against mass migrations away from their service. If that's the case, I can't see them being in any particular hurry to fix the problem (or to even see it as a problem), but that's not the same thing as actively slowing down the process. They have nothing really to gain by being malicious at this point, and plenty to lose (internet lynch mobs being easy to rile, as they are). Let's just put the pitchforks down for a little bit until we're certain that GoDaddy is really deliberately throwing spanners in the works. Once you're certain of that, then by all means, go hog wild with your iNoose and your PitchFork 2.0. Until then, keep an eye on it, but let's not jump to stupid/hasty conclusions.

by samlev 15y ago

bountie 15y ago

What's the motive to make this process painful? Would people really say Oh screw it, I'll just stay with GoDAddy? Ive never transferred a domain before so I don't know what the process or delay is normally like

kennystone 15y ago
Most people won't understand it is 'go daddy' hijacking the process and may get frustrated by delays. One guy in this thread thought it was a name cheap problem, for example.
tgrass 15y ago
This is standard practice to increase the friction of unsubscribing. How many clicks does it take you to logout of Facebook or Google...and see if your grandmother could even figure out how.
- djeikyb 15y ago
  Two clicks. Google is easy: click your name, click sign out. Facebook is slightly harder: click the menu triangle in the upper right hand corner, click sign out.
  - jey 15y ago
    I think he meant to say "close your account" rather than "log out".
    - djeikyb 15y ago
      Oh. That makes sense. My bullshit filter kicked in before I finished interpreting the post as a whole.
mikeash 15y ago
Yes, people would. Obviously, the people who are really adamant about switching away won't be deterred by this, but there will be a lot of people who are less forceful about it who might well just give up if it's too hard.
r00fus 15y ago
> Would people really say Oh screw it, I'll just stay with GoDAddy? Yes, actually they would. Or more likely, they intend to, only have small time slices and take weeks or months longer to leave. Aggregated across millions of subscribers, and this adds up to big $$$, some of which can pay a high-priced spokesmodel to defray a large amount of the downsides.

tristanperry 15y ago

GoDaddy have breached ICANN regulations before (e.g. after updating contact information, 'resetting' the 60 day no-transfer-out rule). I'm not surprised in the slightest that they're doing it again.

Caged 15y ago
If this is indeed against ICANN policy, they're still in breach of this rule. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/602885/godaddy.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/602885/godaddy.png
cperciva 15y ago
after updating contact information, 'resetting' the 60 day no-transfer-out rule I feel dirty saying this, but I'm with GoDaddy on this one. It might be a violation of ICANN regulations, but it's also a really important step for protecting against domain hijacking.
- ohashi 15y ago
  I really disagree, as someone who has done domain names professionally for almost a decade. How many registrants are going to notice their whois info changed? Nothing changes with whois info in terms of functionality. 60 days, no big deal. Besides, if I already have your account compromised, I probably have your email, that's how they are linked in the first place. It wouldn't be too hard in most systems to just initiate the transfer and hide that info from the user, or simply lock them out of their email. You think their domain registrar is the first place they will call when their email stops working? HELL NO. They have bigger concerns. They are using a special email address for whois stuff? How often you think they check that? Most people, not all that often. If I didn't subscribe to updates on my whois info from a third party, I wouldn't notice either, and it's my damn job. We can't implement mindless policies to 'protect' people from themselves unless there are real tangible benefits to it and it's not simply self-serving. Of the major registrars, GoDaddy is the only one I know of implementing this policy and they've been hijacked numerous times. Their whois privacy even had a hole in it for years that is now fixed. It's not stopping the hijackings. Other registrars without that policy have better track records preventing domain hijackings.

untog 15y ago

I was extremely surprised at the tone of the blog post, given that it doesn't really confirm much: "we suspect that this competitor is thwarting efforts" "GoDaddy appears to be" Suspect, appears to be... none of these are exactly definitive terms.

ohashi 15y ago
In the domain industry, that's par for the course. You can almost never get 'proof' of what they are doing. You can just see patterns and changes. You can hypothesize based on trying something again and again, manipulating the inputs and seeing what changes. Sounds a bit like a science experiment? Often seems that way. There's a ton of NDAs going to all sorts of people and companies to do different stuff. The inner workings of a lot of stuff is never legally allowed to be talked about publicly. So you end up with this type of hypothesis. The actual transfer process can be nearly instant given the EPP code and the registrar's permission. What happens in between is somewhat fuzzy and I am not sure there are clear rules on how each company handles it. The longest I've seen (that I recall) is 7 days, but I could be wrong.
chc 15y ago
What do you expect? "Our spies among GoDaddy's top executives have discovered…"? "Our team of highly trained accredited psychics has been informed by the spirits that…"? NameCheap is no more capable of knowing GoDaddy's inner workings than we are. They can only tell us what they're seeing and draw logical conclusions from those things.

newobj 15y ago

There's a fine line between devil's advocate and astro turfer.

jerf 15y ago
I have nothing to do with any domain name company or interest, beyond being a consumer (as many here) of a company not related to any in the story. I endorse samlev's caution. Given past history with GoDaddy, I'm willing to believe they're not being above board, but I'd like more evidence before I join the lynch mob. Let's be a bit less in a hurry to sling around accusations of astroturfing, OK?
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  No, I have to side with newobj here. People protesting "internet mobs" seems to have become some sort of strange meme over the past few days/weeks. I don't know where the idea came from, but I've been seeing it exclusively used against anti-SOPA/godaddy people. And I am seeing it primarily from accounts that are younger than 2 or so months..... Seriously people, this isn't medieval mob justice. We're not burning down a widow's home. Worst case scenario if we're wrong is a few stock tickers dip for a few days. Cut it out with this "omg mob justice" shit.
samlev 15y ago
Well. You got me. I'm a big corporate shill for GoDaddy. I've been sent here to turn popular opinion back in their favour. Good going, detective, now that you've outed me, I'll lose my job, and who will feed all of my 58 children? Seriously, though, I have no connection with GoDaddy, I'm just very sceptical of the "GoDaddy will attempt to repair their reputation by actively making life harder for people who already don't like them" idea. Sure, they may well be playing games to attempt to make it too hard for people to leave, but I think that it's much more likely that they have rate-limiters, and anti-spam/fraud protection working against mass migrations away from their service. If that's the case, I can't see them being in any particular hurry to fix the problem (or to even see it as a problem), but that's not the same thing as actively slowing down the process. They have nothing really to gain by being malicious at this point, and plenty to lose (internet lynch mobs being easy to rile, as they are). Let's just put the pitchforks down for a little bit until we're certain that GoDaddy is really deliberately throwing spanners in the works. Once you're certain of that, then by all means, go hog wild with your iNoose and your PitchFork 2.0. Until then, keep an eye on it, but let's not jump to stupid/hasty conclusions.