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> there are 14 Vice-Presidents of the European Parliament in total Of course. First rule in government spending: why have one vice-president when you can have

> there are 14 Vice-Presidents of the European Parliament in total Of course. First rule in government spending: why have one vice-president when you can have 14 at fourteen times the price?

jessaustin 4y ago
This is why there are nearly 700 general officers in USA military...
dijit 4y ago
It’s easy to paint it this way, but consider the fact that concentrations of power in few people almost always leads to gross corruption in manners that are uncorrectable (except with revolution). This is why some people do not want small government. Not because they argue that large government is efficient or cheap: it’s that there are more checks and balances on power. I think CGP Greys video on “rules for rulers” illustrates the point quite clearly. https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs
- ipaddr 4y ago
  We see this across the Atlanic in Canada where each government starts off with few cabinet minister. After a few elections new departments are setup, everyone in the government party ends up as a minister or assistant. The bigger the government usually the more corruption until they change parties and repeat again.
- tupolef 4y ago
  So we multiplied the price of the ticket to corrupt the whole parliament. But you know what, actually this parliament is made in such a way that there is no need to bribe the majority of the parties. It is enough to have a small blocking or active percentage. On the other hand, at the European commission, where the real power is, we don't have 14 presidents and there have been corruptions, serious corruptions. The truth is that there is 14 positions because it was necessary to give empty chairs to all the political parties of the member countries. In Europe, no politician, no matter how many times he or she has been defeated or scandalized, has difficulty finding a job.
matthewmorgan 4y ago
Each one being paid €22,122.10 monthly, apparently
- oezi 4y ago
  As one of the highest political posts in Europe and being paid less than most FAANG engineers.
  - capableweb 4y ago
    Somehow I doubt "most" FAANG engineers pull in 280,000 USD per year. I'll give you that many are, but "most"?
    - kgwgk 4y ago
      I have no idea if the data is any good, but this puts the median at $220k-250k (and much more for Netflix): https://medium.com/@mikldd/data-salaries-at-faang-companies-in-2022-29d5b56b2428 https://medium.com/@mikldd/data-salaries-at-faang-companies-...
      - capableweb 4y ago
        Thank you for some data on the topic. Seems it doesn't include non-US salaries, so fair to say the conclusion is that most FAANG engineers don't earn 280k USD/year.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - reacharavindh 4y ago
    Which FAANG pays €22k _Monthly?!_
    - oytis 4y ago
      In SF, not in Europe
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
brycewray 4y ago
Upvoted simply for the _Contact_ paraphrase/reference. :-)
kzrdude 4y ago
EP needs diversity in leadership to be legitimate to the european peoples, since they are from many different countries.
arlort 4y ago
The article is from 2014 but shouldn't have changed much: https://transparency.eu/how-much-does-an-mep-make/ https://transparency.eu/how-much-does-an-mep-make/ The difference between an MEP and a VP seems to be 800€ / month, not a whole lot and it's a way for each party to be represented in the administrative body of the parliament
- Traubenfuchs 4y ago
  800 gross a month is probably a life changing amount to at least half of all European citizens.
  - wizeman 4y ago
    And that's not even counting the remaining >21.000 EUR / month that they earn. And we're talking about a European salary! Which they don't even pay income taxes on (only a small EU tax). So that's practically after-tax money we're talking about.
  - layer8 4y ago
    The argument is that saving the 800€ / month for the 14 VPs won’t make much of a difference for the European citizens.
    - wizeman 4y ago
      We are not paying 800 EUR / month for these 14 VPs, we are paying more than 22.000 EUR / month, each, which is somewhere between 3.7 and 4.6 million EUR / year in total, for the 14 VPs. That can definitely make a difference in many European citizens' lives (although, not all Europeans at the same time, of course).
      - BaRRaKID 4y ago
        Definitely not many. How many people do you think there are in Europe? 4.6 million EUR would allow you to give 1€ to 1% of the entire EU population. On the other hand you can say that these VPs are in part responsible for the 2 trillion EUR covid recovery plan, which would allow 100% of the EU population to receive around 4500€.
johannes1234321 4y ago
Primarily the purpose is to make sure that the different political views as well as different EU memeber states and regions are represented. Together they have to be able to represent the whole spread views and cultures, for being respected inside parliament as well as by the public. Whether 14 vice plus one president is the sweet spot one can argue, but this is two vice presidents per political group in Parlament.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  Different views across all the EU member states are represented through the MEPs. 14 VPs is just a small part of the EU gravy train.
  - johannes1234321 4y ago
    For policy making, yes, MEPs are the ones voting. For administrative tasks, deciding on parliament agenda, etc. you need a smaller group for being practical in decision making. Starting each session with a debate on the day's agenda (while in some situations it is a relevant police decision which has to be taken by parliament) and adminsitrative routine tasks is quite inefficient. Now the parliament has 7 different political groups (fractions) and a bunch of independent members. Having two VPs per fraction is somewhat a compromise between true representative (which would need more people) or ignoring more (they are already ignoring independents) And yes, of course, you could also force less fractions, but fractions covering too broad of a spectrum are quite problematic too (see spread in the two parties in the US system ...) And in cost or whatever it is a small part of what parliament costs anyways and quite neglectible.

> there are 14 Vice-Presidents of the European Parliament in total Of course. First rule in government spending: why have one vice-president when you can have 14 at fourteen times the price?

jessaustin 4y ago

This is why there are nearly 700 general officers in USA military...

dijit 4y ago

It’s easy to paint it this way, but consider the fact that concentrations of power in few people almost always leads to gross corruption in manners that are uncorrectable (except with revolution). This is why some people do not want small government. Not because they argue that large government is efficient or cheap: it’s that there are more checks and balances on power. I think CGP Greys video on “rules for rulers” illustrates the point quite clearly. https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs

ipaddr 4y ago
We see this across the Atlanic in Canada where each government starts off with few cabinet minister. After a few elections new departments are setup, everyone in the government party ends up as a minister or assistant. The bigger the government usually the more corruption until they change parties and repeat again.
tupolef 4y ago
So we multiplied the price of the ticket to corrupt the whole parliament. But you know what, actually this parliament is made in such a way that there is no need to bribe the majority of the parties. It is enough to have a small blocking or active percentage. On the other hand, at the European commission, where the real power is, we don't have 14 presidents and there have been corruptions, serious corruptions. The truth is that there is 14 positions because it was necessary to give empty chairs to all the political parties of the member countries. In Europe, no politician, no matter how many times he or she has been defeated or scandalized, has difficulty finding a job.

matthewmorgan 4y ago

Each one being paid €22,122.10 monthly, apparently

oezi 4y ago
As one of the highest political posts in Europe and being paid less than most FAANG engineers.
- capableweb 4y ago
  Somehow I doubt "most" FAANG engineers pull in 280,000 USD per year. I'll give you that many are, but "most"?
  - kgwgk 4y ago
    I have no idea if the data is any good, but this puts the median at $220k-250k (and much more for Netflix): https://medium.com/@mikldd/data-salaries-at-faang-companies-in-2022-29d5b56b2428 https://medium.com/@mikldd/data-salaries-at-faang-companies-...
    - capableweb 4y ago
      Thank you for some data on the topic. Seems it doesn't include non-US salaries, so fair to say the conclusion is that most FAANG engineers don't earn 280k USD/year.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- reacharavindh 4y ago
  Which FAANG pays €22k _Monthly?!_
  - oytis 4y ago
    In SF, not in Europe

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

brycewray 4y ago

Upvoted simply for the _Contact_ paraphrase/reference. :-)

kzrdude 4y ago

EP needs diversity in leadership to be legitimate to the european peoples, since they are from many different countries.

arlort 4y ago

The article is from 2014 but shouldn't have changed much: https://transparency.eu/how-much-does-an-mep-make/ https://transparency.eu/how-much-does-an-mep-make/ The difference between an MEP and a VP seems to be 800€ / month, not a whole lot and it's a way for each party to be represented in the administrative body of the parliament

Traubenfuchs 4y ago
800 gross a month is probably a life changing amount to at least half of all European citizens.
- wizeman 4y ago
  And that's not even counting the remaining >21.000 EUR / month that they earn. And we're talking about a European salary! Which they don't even pay income taxes on (only a small EU tax). So that's practically after-tax money we're talking about.
- layer8 4y ago
  The argument is that saving the 800€ / month for the 14 VPs won’t make much of a difference for the European citizens.
  - wizeman 4y ago
    We are not paying 800 EUR / month for these 14 VPs, we are paying more than 22.000 EUR / month, each, which is somewhere between 3.7 and 4.6 million EUR / year in total, for the 14 VPs. That can definitely make a difference in many European citizens' lives (although, not all Europeans at the same time, of course).
    - BaRRaKID 4y ago
      Definitely not many. How many people do you think there are in Europe? 4.6 million EUR would allow you to give 1€ to 1% of the entire EU population. On the other hand you can say that these VPs are in part responsible for the 2 trillion EUR covid recovery plan, which would allow 100% of the EU population to receive around 4500€.

johannes1234321 4y ago

Primarily the purpose is to make sure that the different political views as well as different EU memeber states and regions are represented. Together they have to be able to represent the whole spread views and cultures, for being respected inside parliament as well as by the public. Whether 14 vice plus one president is the sweet spot one can argue, but this is two vice presidents per political group in Parlament.

mytailorisrich 4y ago
Different views across all the EU member states are represented through the MEPs. 14 VPs is just a small part of the EU gravy train.
- johannes1234321 4y ago
  For policy making, yes, MEPs are the ones voting. For administrative tasks, deciding on parliament agenda, etc. you need a smaller group for being practical in decision making. Starting each session with a debate on the day's agenda (while in some situations it is a relevant police decision which has to be taken by parliament) and adminsitrative routine tasks is quite inefficient. Now the parliament has 7 different political groups (fractions) and a bunch of independent members. Having two VPs per fraction is somewhat a compromise between true representative (which would need more people) or ignoring more (they are already ignoring independents) And yes, of course, you could also force less fractions, but fractions covering too broad of a spectrum are quite problematic too (see spread in the two parties in the US system ...) And in cost or whatever it is a small part of what parliament costs anyways and quite neglectible.