5 ms·

> And while the value might be there, both are a massive hassle for the seller, so they’d simply refuse most likely. And the "hassle" is not actually accepting

> And while the value might be there, both are a massive hassle for the seller, so they’d simply refuse most likely. And the "hassle" is not actually accepting cash, as that's the least of the problems. It's dealing with the risk and consequences of doing business with someone the government doesn't approve of and then getting in trouble for it (even though the car business has nothing to do with that person). You're arguing like if the salesperson is not accepting cash out of their own free will. But you know that's not true. Think of this as being similar to the situation where the mafia was keeping tabs on your car business and you decided to do business in a way they did not approve of. What do you think would happen? Would you say the car business isn't being forced to do business in a certain way in this situation?

alkonaut 4y ago
> You're arguing like if the salesperson is not accepting cash out of their own free will. But you know that's not true. Whose fault is it? I mean they literally don’t and as far as I know this is because is insecure and expensive. A bag of cash is an expensive liability. They’d prefer I deposited the money and transfered it to them instead. Most restaurants and cafes don’t accept cash either although they are certainly free to do so. But it’s more convenient to just put up a sign saying “no cash” and you have magically cut your cash handling costs to zero and your robbery risk significantly.
- wizeman 4y ago
  > Whose fault is it? I mean they literally don’t and as far as I know this is because is insecure and expensive. "Under AML regulations, anyone involved in vehicle sales can face significant fines and even criminal prosecution if they fail to detect money laundering. This includes law firms, banks as well as vehicle dealers—who can be any individual or business that trades vehicles or acts as an intermediary in their purchase or sale" [1] > A bag of cash is an expensive liability. Not as much of a liability as not selling the car. Unless, of course, the government is threatening to put you in jail, then yes, it's an expensive liability. > Most restaurants and cafes don’t accept cash either although they are certainly free to do so. Wait, what? They don't? I've never been to such a restaurant or cafe... and I've been to dozens of countries. I've been in a few restaurants/cafes that don't accept credit cards, that's for sure (mostly because of the fees I suppose). I wonder what's going on where you live. > But it’s more convenient to just put up a sign saying “no cash” and you have magically cut your cash handling costs to zero and your robbery risk significantly. Perhaps you should consider living in an area with a lower risk of robbery and/or more effective police? What you are saying here is not a problem in most of the world. And it has nothing to do with the new law we are talking about. [1] https://sumsub.com/blog/money-laundering-vehicles/ https://sumsub.com/blog/money-laundering-vehicles/
  - alkonaut 4y ago
    This is in Sweden. Cash is mostly gone. Restaurants where you eat first and pay later usually accept it reluctantly, unless they made clear up front they don’t (they have no choice then - you already ate and unlike the opposite no-card-situation where you are forced to go to an atm, you can hardly go make a deposit!). But stores, cafes etc are cashless to a large extent (but with lots of exceptions or partial exceptions e.g a grocery store might have 1 register of 10 accepting cash which means you don’t want to use cash). Overall, the vast majority of retailers do accept cash in some form but not in usual “small transaction” situations like cafes, taxis, smaller shops.
- wizeman 4y ago
  > Most restaurants and cafes don’t accept cash either although they are certainly free to do so. Ok, so I'm curious about this place where you live where most restaurants don't accept cash, so here's a question: Let's say you enter the restaurant, eat the food and now you owe payment, but you don't have a credit card (maybe you didn't notice the "no cash" sign). Legal tender laws say that cash must be accepted as payment for all debts. So how can the restaurant refuse the cash? That only seems to be legal if the customer prepays for the food, which is not what happens in most restaurants (fast food restaurants notwithstanding). Is there a special exemption for restaurants where you live, or you don't have legal tender laws, or what's going on here?
  - alkonaut 4y ago
    > Ok, so I'm curious about this place where you live where most restaurants don't accept cash This is in Sweden. > Legal tender laws say that cash must be accepted as payment for all debts. Yes. But those apparently aren’t absolute and non-negotiable. The Riksbank is actually concerned about this, because it’s affecting the ability for the economy to function in a crisis, as well as the ability to make anonymous transactions, so there might be changes to this coming. (In English:) https://www.riksbank.se/en-gb/payments--cash/payments-in-sweden/payments-report-2021/3.-the-riksbanks-work-and-policy/the-position-of-cash-as-legal-tender-needs-strengthening/further-political-decisions-are-required-to-safeguard-the-entire-cash-infrastructure-and-cash-as-a-means-of-payment/ https://www.riksbank.se/en-gb/payments--cash/payments-in-swe... But basically today no, there is nothing forcing any business to accept cash today. And as cash use dwindled, the cost of cash handling ballooned to the point where it’s worth swallowing the card fees over paying for cash management. There is also a very widespread cell phone transfer system both for free instant transfers between individuals and for payments. So it’s a widely accepted convenience. Cash is one of those systems now that everyone agrees should remain for privacy and resilience reasons but few are ready to use it. Forcing everyone to accept cash would mean having lots of cash handling expenses (cash registers etc) but still likely almost no cash in circulation. It’s part of the reason the riksbank is eying a CDBC with privacy features. And yes if you travel to Sweden and order a meal at a restaurant you’ll probably always get away with cash if that is all you have (that is - they’d sort it out but in certain places it might be a bit awkward). But if you asked first they might say they “prefer card”. But pre-paid situations (e.g ordering a coffee to go) will often show a no cash sign. The opposite is always true, you’ll never need cash. If you take a taxi it’s card only, nearly no transactions between individuals (used goods, babysitter, beggar(!)…) are cash either. In total though, the death of cash isn’t that widespread 8-9 of 10 retailers still accepts cash. It’s mostly in smaller shops, cafes and similar services you don’t see it (and taxi have been cash free for more than a decade). (In Swedish) https://via.tt.se/pressmeddelande/9-av-10-svenska-handlare-tar-fortsatt-emot-kontanter-som-betalmedel?publisherId=1718444&releaseId=3326689 https://via.tt.se/pressmeddelande/9-av-10-svenska-handlare-t... However, that a retailer accepts cash doesn’t mean it’s convenient to use. For example in a large grocery store a small number of checkouts might accept cash meaning you’ll be waiting in line to pay with cash - so few will.
- Canada 4y ago
  > Whose fault is it? I mean they literally don’t and as far as I know this is because is insecure and expensive. That is utterly ridiculous in the case of a car. If that was any concern whatsoever, then the dealer would say "let me drive you to my bank" and accept/deposit it there, which is a very, very common practice when seller is concerned with authenticity of the notes. It's not an option in low value transactions like restaurant bills but then the risk there is low. I know there are some places that choose not to accept cash payments to avoid cash accounting risk. That's cool, their choice I walk away... without paying them if they didn't disclose no cash policy clearly up front.

alkonaut 4y ago

> You're arguing like if the salesperson is not accepting cash out of their own free will. But you know that's not true. Whose fault is it? I mean they literally don’t and as far as I know this is because is insecure and expensive. A bag of cash is an expensive liability. They’d prefer I deposited the money and transfered it to them instead. Most restaurants and cafes don’t accept cash either although they are certainly free to do so. But it’s more convenient to just put up a sign saying “no cash” and you have magically cut your cash handling costs to zero and your robbery risk significantly.

wizeman 4y ago
> Whose fault is it? I mean they literally don’t and as far as I know this is because is insecure and expensive. "Under AML regulations, anyone involved in vehicle sales can face significant fines and even criminal prosecution if they fail to detect money laundering. This includes law firms, banks as well as vehicle dealers—who can be any individual or business that trades vehicles or acts as an intermediary in their purchase or sale" [1] > A bag of cash is an expensive liability. Not as much of a liability as not selling the car. Unless, of course, the government is threatening to put you in jail, then yes, it's an expensive liability. > Most restaurants and cafes don’t accept cash either although they are certainly free to do so. Wait, what? They don't? I've never been to such a restaurant or cafe... and I've been to dozens of countries. I've been in a few restaurants/cafes that don't accept credit cards, that's for sure (mostly because of the fees I suppose). I wonder what's going on where you live. > But it’s more convenient to just put up a sign saying “no cash” and you have magically cut your cash handling costs to zero and your robbery risk significantly. Perhaps you should consider living in an area with a lower risk of robbery and/or more effective police? What you are saying here is not a problem in most of the world. And it has nothing to do with the new law we are talking about. [1] https://sumsub.com/blog/money-laundering-vehicles/ https://sumsub.com/blog/money-laundering-vehicles/
- alkonaut 4y ago
  This is in Sweden. Cash is mostly gone. Restaurants where you eat first and pay later usually accept it reluctantly, unless they made clear up front they don’t (they have no choice then - you already ate and unlike the opposite no-card-situation where you are forced to go to an atm, you can hardly go make a deposit!). But stores, cafes etc are cashless to a large extent (but with lots of exceptions or partial exceptions e.g a grocery store might have 1 register of 10 accepting cash which means you don’t want to use cash). Overall, the vast majority of retailers do accept cash in some form but not in usual “small transaction” situations like cafes, taxis, smaller shops.
wizeman 4y ago
> Most restaurants and cafes don’t accept cash either although they are certainly free to do so. Ok, so I'm curious about this place where you live where most restaurants don't accept cash, so here's a question: Let's say you enter the restaurant, eat the food and now you owe payment, but you don't have a credit card (maybe you didn't notice the "no cash" sign). Legal tender laws say that cash must be accepted as payment for all debts. So how can the restaurant refuse the cash? That only seems to be legal if the customer prepays for the food, which is not what happens in most restaurants (fast food restaurants notwithstanding). Is there a special exemption for restaurants where you live, or you don't have legal tender laws, or what's going on here?
- alkonaut 4y ago
  > Ok, so I'm curious about this place where you live where most restaurants don't accept cash This is in Sweden. > Legal tender laws say that cash must be accepted as payment for all debts. Yes. But those apparently aren’t absolute and non-negotiable. The Riksbank is actually concerned about this, because it’s affecting the ability for the economy to function in a crisis, as well as the ability to make anonymous transactions, so there might be changes to this coming. (In English:) https://www.riksbank.se/en-gb/payments--cash/payments-in-sweden/payments-report-2021/3.-the-riksbanks-work-and-policy/the-position-of-cash-as-legal-tender-needs-strengthening/further-political-decisions-are-required-to-safeguard-the-entire-cash-infrastructure-and-cash-as-a-means-of-payment/ https://www.riksbank.se/en-gb/payments--cash/payments-in-swe... But basically today no, there is nothing forcing any business to accept cash today. And as cash use dwindled, the cost of cash handling ballooned to the point where it’s worth swallowing the card fees over paying for cash management. There is also a very widespread cell phone transfer system both for free instant transfers between individuals and for payments. So it’s a widely accepted convenience. Cash is one of those systems now that everyone agrees should remain for privacy and resilience reasons but few are ready to use it. Forcing everyone to accept cash would mean having lots of cash handling expenses (cash registers etc) but still likely almost no cash in circulation. It’s part of the reason the riksbank is eying a CDBC with privacy features. And yes if you travel to Sweden and order a meal at a restaurant you’ll probably always get away with cash if that is all you have (that is - they’d sort it out but in certain places it might be a bit awkward). But if you asked first they might say they “prefer card”. But pre-paid situations (e.g ordering a coffee to go) will often show a no cash sign. The opposite is always true, you’ll never need cash. If you take a taxi it’s card only, nearly no transactions between individuals (used goods, babysitter, beggar(!)…) are cash either. In total though, the death of cash isn’t that widespread 8-9 of 10 retailers still accepts cash. It’s mostly in smaller shops, cafes and similar services you don’t see it (and taxi have been cash free for more than a decade). (In Swedish) https://via.tt.se/pressmeddelande/9-av-10-svenska-handlare-tar-fortsatt-emot-kontanter-som-betalmedel?publisherId=1718444&releaseId=3326689 https://via.tt.se/pressmeddelande/9-av-10-svenska-handlare-t... However, that a retailer accepts cash doesn’t mean it’s convenient to use. For example in a large grocery store a small number of checkouts might accept cash meaning you’ll be waiting in line to pay with cash - so few will.
Canada 4y ago
> Whose fault is it? I mean they literally don’t and as far as I know this is because is insecure and expensive. That is utterly ridiculous in the case of a car. If that was any concern whatsoever, then the dealer would say "let me drive you to my bank" and accept/deposit it there, which is a very, very common practice when seller is concerned with authenticity of the notes. It's not an option in low value transactions like restaurant bills but then the risk there is low. I know there are some places that choose not to accept cash payments to avoid cash accounting risk. That's cool, their choice I walk away... without paying them if they didn't disclose no cash policy clearly up front.