5 ms·

> The only people who win from benchmark optimization are those with 16-32 Gb of RAM (for example, Google employees). > Firefox is basically unusable on a 2Gb

> The only people who win from benchmark optimization are those with 16-32 Gb of RAM (for example, Google employees). > Firefox is basically unusable on a 2Gb system <...> I just had a look at one of the largest laptop retailers in the UK, and they don't sell laptops with less than 4GB anymore. Checking the steam survey [0] (which is biased towards gamers but still a very representative sample of PC owners and users), almost 95% of people have more than 4GB. Realistically, 2GB and even 4GB devices are at the absolute bottom end of devices that are in use in desktop computing. Mobile is a different beast, but android has a specific lightweight OS for 2GB devices, and 4GB devices are budget at this stage. 6GB is the requirement for full-fat android. [1] You may or may not agree that it's necessary, but the reality is that 2GB device are bordering on obsolete in 2022. > One of the solutions could be to freeze and compress background tabs. Firefox supports this already [2] [0] https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Softw... [1] https://www.xda-developers.com/android-12-performance-class/ https://www.xda-developers.com/android-12-performance-class/ [2] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/unload-inactive-tabs-save-system-memory-firefox https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/unload-inactive-tabs-sa...

codedokode 4y ago
The laptop I had supported 4 Gb (due to artificial limitations by Intel), but it started to switch off randomly and I found out that if you remove one (any) of RAM cards, then it can work without any issues. So this is how you can have a 2Gb device in 2022. Having two laptops is twice better than having just one, so I decided to continue using it. Maybe I will connect it as a virtual monitor for a second laptop (then 2 Gb should be enough), but I am not sure if Wayland supports this. Also, even if new laptos have 4+ Gb of RAM, there are still 5-10 years old models in use.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >So this is how you can have a 2Gb device in 2022. Can you please point out which laptop in 2022 is being sold with 2GB of ram limitation? Really curious. The smallest I could find for sale in my country is 4GB and I had to look really hard as they're not cheaper than buying something with 8GB of ram or they're just ARM Chromebooks. Even most budget chinese Android phones rarely ship with less than 4GB of RAM anymore. So you made me very curious about 2GB laptops retailing in 2022. Edit: wow, why the downvotes guys? Is it against the rules to aske questions?
  - codedokode 4y ago
    Found 2Gb laptop, here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33932592 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33932592
    - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
      In which country can you buy that product retail locally? (not via AliExpress as that moves the goalposts considering all the weird stuff you can find there)
      - codedokode 4y ago
        In Russia. The store website [1] says that they can deliver it within 2 hours, so it can be bought locally. Irbis seems to be a brand of cheap laptops targeted at Russia, so it might be not known in other countries or they are sold there under another brand. By the way, one of the buyers wrote that it is "great for studying" and another wrote that "it is confortable to use with Linux". [1] https://www.dns-shop.ru/product/829ba65324bded20/133-noutbuk-irbis-nb77-cernyj/ https://www.dns-shop.ru/product/829ba65324bded20/133-noutbuk...
      - justsomehnguy 4y ago
        Anything with Celeron instead of the processor and a year-two old. There are tons of refurbs, new-old stock and blatant lies on Amazon so you can really expect someone who doesn't know shit (eg only knows and bother about persistent memory, completely oblivious about RAM) can buy a device with 2Gb RAM in 2022.
pjmlp 4y ago
While OP might not be right with 2GB, try to open a couple of browser tabs, or even worse a couple of Electron apps on a 4GB system. Many people still buy those absolute bottom end of devices.
- codedokode 4y ago
  Even worse, some of them have soldered RAM, especially ones that are in $150-$200 range. Although expensive laptops also have RAM soldered.
  - lmpdev 4y ago
    Piggybacking off this Why does my Macbook Air which cost me A$1,499(!) have soldered, unupgradable RAM? I can SMD solder but it's still far too risky just to save a few hundred dollars
    - codedokode 4y ago
      Because then you would be able to buy RAM several times cheaper than the one Apple wants to sell to you.
      - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
        Not since the move to M1 SoCs where the RAM is soldered close to the CPU to minimize latency. Replaceable DIMMS are a technical no-go for such scenario.
        codedokode 4y ago
        Then the board with CPU, GPU and RAM could be made replaceable.
        ChuckNorris89 4y ago
        'Could' is the key word here. Of course they could just deaig and sell new motherboards with new chips for the older laptops chassis, like framework does, but knowing Apple, such user upgrades will not happen.
dieulot 4y ago
Mozilla publishes hardware stats from Firefox desktop users: https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/hardware https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/hardware <4GB devices are ~10.6% of the mix. 4GB are 20.8%.
- codedokode 4y ago
  Is is also interesting that 68% of devices have a GPU from Intel, i.e. no proper GPU.
  - alenrozac 4y ago
    most pre-built home PCs, office machines, virtuals, etc.
  - crazygringo 4y ago
    I mean, unless you're a gamer or do certain niche work... why would you need a "proper GPU?"
  - vladvasiliu 4y ago
    Those have been good enough for a while now. My late 2013 MBP worked fine until last year, when I stopped using it for unrelated reasons. It had an iris something, and IIRC that CPU wasn't even brand new when that mac model came out. Sure, I didn't play games on it. But for regular "office use" I never had any performance issue. For my current laptop, I specifically wanted a model without a dedicated GPU. Didn't want the hassle of dealing with that (I run Linux) and also there was no reason for me to pay extra for something I don't need. It was cheaper for me to buy a dedicated GPU for my desktop.
fikama 4y ago
You check laptop offerings in one of the most wealthy countries on earth - and given that you still found devices with 4GB of ram is concerning for me. I feel like better support for 2gb devices could be life-changing for many people around the world.
codedokode 4y ago
Out of curiosity I decided to look at cheap laptops in my country. One of them is $240 Irbis NB77 laptop with IPS display, 2Gb of RAM (soldered as I understood), 4-core Atom Z3735F CPU, only 2 USB ports, 32 Gb of eMMC and, the worst of all, Windows 10, which probably will take all of the space on a drive. But of course there are cheaper laptops with 4Gb RAM, so this one seems more like an exception. There are even tablets that cost less and have 12 Gb of RAM, although they are sold by suspicious sellers from China.
- justsomehnguy 4y ago
  > Atom Z3735F That's Bay Trail Atom. Launch date: Q1'14, two years after the platform launch, two years before the platform sees the latest release. Or this is old new stock (of Bay Trail Atoms?) of something completely insane. Come on, 8 years! I had Acer W4-821 tablet with similar CPU in 2014! And was quite hampered by an upgrade to Win10, though I managed to run Virtual Box with CentOS on it to live test some code. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/80274/intel-atom-processor-z3735f-2m-cache-up-to-1-83-ghz.html https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/80274/i...
- black3r 4y ago
  for 245€ I can get a refurbished Lenovo T470 with FullHD display, i5 7300U, 256GB SSD, and 8GB DDR4 RAM (and a Windows 10 Pro licence)... There's absolutely no point in buying new cheap laptops these days.., Big businesses are always getting rid of 5 year old laptops because their 5-year warranty expired, and the prices get low because they're old, but those 5 year old laptops are comparable to 1 year old laptops these days, cause in 2017-2021 there has been 0 improvements in the laptop world... I wanted to replace my top of the line 2017 Dell XPS 9560 in 2021 after 4 years of use and literally didn't find any laptop that was noticeably better to justify paying for it....

codedokode 4y ago

The laptop I had supported 4 Gb (due to artificial limitations by Intel), but it started to switch off randomly and I found out that if you remove one (any) of RAM cards, then it can work without any issues. So this is how you can have a 2Gb device in 2022. Having two laptops is twice better than having just one, so I decided to continue using it. Maybe I will connect it as a virtual monitor for a second laptop (then 2 Gb should be enough), but I am not sure if Wayland supports this. Also, even if new laptos have 4+ Gb of RAM, there are still 5-10 years old models in use.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>So this is how you can have a 2Gb device in 2022. Can you please point out which laptop in 2022 is being sold with 2GB of ram limitation? Really curious. The smallest I could find for sale in my country is 4GB and I had to look really hard as they're not cheaper than buying something with 8GB of ram or they're just ARM Chromebooks. Even most budget chinese Android phones rarely ship with less than 4GB of RAM anymore. So you made me very curious about 2GB laptops retailing in 2022. Edit: wow, why the downvotes guys? Is it against the rules to aske questions?
- codedokode 4y ago
  Found 2Gb laptop, here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33932592 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33932592
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    In which country can you buy that product retail locally? (not via AliExpress as that moves the goalposts considering all the weird stuff you can find there)
    - codedokode 4y ago
      In Russia. The store website [1] says that they can deliver it within 2 hours, so it can be bought locally. Irbis seems to be a brand of cheap laptops targeted at Russia, so it might be not known in other countries or they are sold there under another brand. By the way, one of the buyers wrote that it is "great for studying" and another wrote that "it is confortable to use with Linux". [1] https://www.dns-shop.ru/product/829ba65324bded20/133-noutbuk-irbis-nb77-cernyj/ https://www.dns-shop.ru/product/829ba65324bded20/133-noutbuk...
    - justsomehnguy 4y ago
      Anything with Celeron instead of the processor and a year-two old. There are tons of refurbs, new-old stock and blatant lies on Amazon so you can really expect someone who doesn't know shit (eg only knows and bother about persistent memory, completely oblivious about RAM) can buy a device with 2Gb RAM in 2022.

pjmlp 4y ago

While OP might not be right with 2GB, try to open a couple of browser tabs, or even worse a couple of Electron apps on a 4GB system. Many people still buy those absolute bottom end of devices.

codedokode 4y ago
Even worse, some of them have soldered RAM, especially ones that are in $150-$200 range. Although expensive laptops also have RAM soldered.
- lmpdev 4y ago
  Piggybacking off this Why does my Macbook Air which cost me A$1,499(!) have soldered, unupgradable RAM? I can SMD solder but it's still far too risky just to save a few hundred dollars
  - codedokode 4y ago
    Because then you would be able to buy RAM several times cheaper than the one Apple wants to sell to you.
    - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
      Not since the move to M1 SoCs where the RAM is soldered close to the CPU to minimize latency. Replaceable DIMMS are a technical no-go for such scenario.
      - codedokode 4y ago
        Then the board with CPU, GPU and RAM could be made replaceable.
        ChuckNorris89 4y ago
        'Could' is the key word here. Of course they could just deaig and sell new motherboards with new chips for the older laptops chassis, like framework does, but knowing Apple, such user upgrades will not happen.

dieulot 4y ago

Mozilla publishes hardware stats from Firefox desktop users: https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/hardware https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/hardware <4GB devices are ~10.6% of the mix. 4GB are 20.8%.

codedokode 4y ago
Is is also interesting that 68% of devices have a GPU from Intel, i.e. no proper GPU.
- alenrozac 4y ago
  most pre-built home PCs, office machines, virtuals, etc.
- crazygringo 4y ago
  I mean, unless you're a gamer or do certain niche work... why would you need a "proper GPU?"
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  Those have been good enough for a while now. My late 2013 MBP worked fine until last year, when I stopped using it for unrelated reasons. It had an iris something, and IIRC that CPU wasn't even brand new when that mac model came out. Sure, I didn't play games on it. But for regular "office use" I never had any performance issue. For my current laptop, I specifically wanted a model without a dedicated GPU. Didn't want the hassle of dealing with that (I run Linux) and also there was no reason for me to pay extra for something I don't need. It was cheaper for me to buy a dedicated GPU for my desktop.

fikama 4y ago

You check laptop offerings in one of the most wealthy countries on earth - and given that you still found devices with 4GB of ram is concerning for me. I feel like better support for 2gb devices could be life-changing for many people around the world.

codedokode 4y ago

Out of curiosity I decided to look at cheap laptops in my country. One of them is $240 Irbis NB77 laptop with IPS display, 2Gb of RAM (soldered as I understood), 4-core Atom Z3735F CPU, only 2 USB ports, 32 Gb of eMMC and, the worst of all, Windows 10, which probably will take all of the space on a drive. But of course there are cheaper laptops with 4Gb RAM, so this one seems more like an exception. There are even tablets that cost less and have 12 Gb of RAM, although they are sold by suspicious sellers from China.

justsomehnguy 4y ago
> Atom Z3735F That's Bay Trail Atom. Launch date: Q1'14, two years after the platform launch, two years before the platform sees the latest release. Or this is old new stock (of Bay Trail Atoms?) of something completely insane. Come on, 8 years! I had Acer W4-821 tablet with similar CPU in 2014! And was quite hampered by an upgrade to Win10, though I managed to run Virtual Box with CentOS on it to live test some code. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/80274/intel-atom-processor-z3735f-2m-cache-up-to-1-83-ghz.html https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/80274/i...
black3r 4y ago
for 245€ I can get a refurbished Lenovo T470 with FullHD display, i5 7300U, 256GB SSD, and 8GB DDR4 RAM (and a Windows 10 Pro licence)... There's absolutely no point in buying new cheap laptops these days.., Big businesses are always getting rid of 5 year old laptops because their 5-year warranty expired, and the prices get low because they're old, but those 5 year old laptops are comparable to 1 year old laptops these days, cause in 2017-2021 there has been 0 improvements in the laptop world... I wanted to replace my top of the line 2017 Dell XPS 9560 in 2021 after 4 years of use and literally didn't find any laptop that was noticeably better to justify paying for it....