4 ms·

You don't own the cash in your pocket

by ThrowawayTestr 4y ago

tgv 4y ago
If you can't explain where it comes from. Otherwise, it's yours to do with as you please.
- tbillington 4y ago
  burden of proof?
  - alkonaut 4y ago
    You’ll need to explain where large amounts of cash comes from when depositing, or what it’s for when withdrawing. So in a way the burden is on whoever wants to use large amounts of cash.
- cdot2 4y ago
  Wouldnt that be a guilty until proven innocent system?
- pigsty 4y ago
  Why should anyone have to prove what’s in their pocket is theirs? Why not have police question people for wearing shoes that are a little too nice or seize expensive watches?
  - kvdveer 4y ago
    Police actually does that here NL). If you declare hardly any income or posessions on your tax report, yet you drive some very expensive car, you may expect a visit from some fraud investigation unit. This has proven very effective against organised crime.
    - zxcvbn4038 4y ago
      They must be front line street thugs or something - any wise guy worth his weight is going to declare enough income to keep the tax authorities off his back. The rest goes into a safety deposit box someplace distant, or gets commingled into a business someplace. Escobar owned a cab company which he claimed was the source of his income - he even had a couple guys who would drive around picking up and dropping off passengers. In modern drug cartels everyone is a lottery winner - they will pay people full value to sign over lottery winnings to them just so they can report it as their source of income.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - tgv 4y ago
    Crime. Not that difficult, is it?
    - jeltz 4y ago
      Yeah, I am a bit worried that we may be too harsh but these laws combat real issues in our society.
      - wizeman 4y ago
        > Yeah, I am a bit worried that we may be too harsh but these laws combat real issues in our society. Well, there are many other ways to combat these issues without treating innocent citizens as criminals unless they prove they are innocent. Believe me, I've been on the receiving end of these laws despite never having done anything illegal, which means that my financial privacy has now been ruined several times and as a consequence, my security and safety and that of my family is now at risk, forever.
    - pigsty 4y ago
      I literally have the equivalent of $1500 in my wallet right now. Why? Because I withdrew it and might end up buying something with it, either in one big purchase or ration it throughout the month. Any country that considers that a crime or potentially a crime is dystopian. It’s insane that people think what was the typical way to pay for things a few years ago (and still is in the free world) is some vile action worthy of suspicion.
      - wizeman 4y ago
        > I literally have the equivalent of $1500 in my wallet right now. > Any country that considers that a crime or potentially a crime is dystopian. Then Spain and Greece meet your definition of being dystopian, as their cash payment limits are 1,000 EUR and 500 EUR respectively. And I agree with you.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - wizeman 4y ago
    > Why not have police question people for wearing shoes that are a little too nice or seize expensive watches? Please, don't give them more ideas.
  - jeltz 4y ago
    To fight organized crime by making life harder for career criminals. And yes they can and do question things which are not cash, especially expensive cars.
- flandish 4y ago
  Get the boot out of your mouth. If cash is legal tender, then any amount is, by default, legal. This law makes it not fully legal tender (after amount X). It is disgusting. Stop pretending the government (any) has the “average” man’s best interest. Stop pretending they care.
  - alkonaut 4y ago
    > Get the boot out of your mouth. If cash is legal tender, then any amount is, by default, legal. The concept of what is and isn’t “legal tender” is pretty extreme in the US compared to many other places. E.g many (most?) countries routinely takes bank notes out of circulation and make them worthless. But this isn’t so much about whether is legal tender but more about KYC laws: your €20K is no good to me as payment for a car if my bank won’t accept it in a deposit without a lot of hassle. > Stop pretending the government (any) has the “average” man’s best interest I like my government. I believe it operates with the best interest of the majority in mind. Why would they not? I elected them? It doesn’t consist of shadowy bureaucrats with hard- to-decide motives as far as I can see. They usually make laws with public support and have to answer when making impopular laws. The whole “governments are universally bad” thing is sad. Are people accepting living in democracies they experience working so poorly that they believe government has its own - or worse someone else’s - best interest in mind.
    - wizeman 4y ago
      > I like my government. I believe it operates with the best interest of the majority in mind. Yeah, I used to believe that too. > Are people accepting living in democracies they experience working so poorly that they believe government has its own - or worse someone else’s - best interest in mind. Yes, unfortunately. And that's something people learn to accept because 1) most people are not aware that governments could work better, and 2) even if they know governments could work better, it's not clear to them how to achieve that, and 3) even when there are governments that already work better, it's not easy to move to another country, be it due to friends, family, lack of jobs in your expertise, language barriers, cultural barriers, different climate, strict immigration policies, etc. And even when you can move to another country, many countries still have most of the same underlying problems with government, because even when there is genuine interest in solving the problems (which is rare), their root causes are never actually solved (or at least, not effectively).
- throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
  ah yes, civil asset forfeiture is now a And That's A Good Thing, Here's Why

You don't own the cash in your pocket

tgv 4y ago

If you can't explain where it comes from. Otherwise, it's yours to do with as you please.

tbillington 4y ago
burden of proof?
- alkonaut 4y ago
  You’ll need to explain where large amounts of cash comes from when depositing, or what it’s for when withdrawing. So in a way the burden is on whoever wants to use large amounts of cash.
cdot2 4y ago
Wouldnt that be a guilty until proven innocent system?
pigsty 4y ago
Why should anyone have to prove what’s in their pocket is theirs? Why not have police question people for wearing shoes that are a little too nice or seize expensive watches?
- kvdveer 4y ago
  Police actually does that here NL). If you declare hardly any income or posessions on your tax report, yet you drive some very expensive car, you may expect a visit from some fraud investigation unit. This has proven very effective against organised crime.
  - zxcvbn4038 4y ago
    They must be front line street thugs or something - any wise guy worth his weight is going to declare enough income to keep the tax authorities off his back. The rest goes into a safety deposit box someplace distant, or gets commingled into a business someplace. Escobar owned a cab company which he claimed was the source of his income - he even had a couple guys who would drive around picking up and dropping off passengers. In modern drug cartels everyone is a lottery winner - they will pay people full value to sign over lottery winnings to them just so they can report it as their source of income.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- tgv 4y ago
  Crime. Not that difficult, is it?
  - jeltz 4y ago
    Yeah, I am a bit worried that we may be too harsh but these laws combat real issues in our society.
    - wizeman 4y ago
      > Yeah, I am a bit worried that we may be too harsh but these laws combat real issues in our society. Well, there are many other ways to combat these issues without treating innocent citizens as criminals unless they prove they are innocent. Believe me, I've been on the receiving end of these laws despite never having done anything illegal, which means that my financial privacy has now been ruined several times and as a consequence, my security and safety and that of my family is now at risk, forever.
  - pigsty 4y ago
    I literally have the equivalent of $1500 in my wallet right now. Why? Because I withdrew it and might end up buying something with it, either in one big purchase or ration it throughout the month. Any country that considers that a crime or potentially a crime is dystopian. It’s insane that people think what was the typical way to pay for things a few years ago (and still is in the free world) is some vile action worthy of suspicion.
    - wizeman 4y ago
      > I literally have the equivalent of $1500 in my wallet right now. > Any country that considers that a crime or potentially a crime is dystopian. Then Spain and Greece meet your definition of being dystopian, as their cash payment limits are 1,000 EUR and 500 EUR respectively. And I agree with you.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
- wizeman 4y ago
  > Why not have police question people for wearing shoes that are a little too nice or seize expensive watches? Please, don't give them more ideas.
- jeltz 4y ago
  To fight organized crime by making life harder for career criminals. And yes they can and do question things which are not cash, especially expensive cars.
flandish 4y ago
Get the boot out of your mouth. If cash is legal tender, then any amount is, by default, legal. This law makes it not fully legal tender (after amount X). It is disgusting. Stop pretending the government (any) has the “average” man’s best interest. Stop pretending they care.
- alkonaut 4y ago
  > Get the boot out of your mouth. If cash is legal tender, then any amount is, by default, legal. The concept of what is and isn’t “legal tender” is pretty extreme in the US compared to many other places. E.g many (most?) countries routinely takes bank notes out of circulation and make them worthless. But this isn’t so much about whether is legal tender but more about KYC laws: your €20K is no good to me as payment for a car if my bank won’t accept it in a deposit without a lot of hassle. > Stop pretending the government (any) has the “average” man’s best interest I like my government. I believe it operates with the best interest of the majority in mind. Why would they not? I elected them? It doesn’t consist of shadowy bureaucrats with hard- to-decide motives as far as I can see. They usually make laws with public support and have to answer when making impopular laws. The whole “governments are universally bad” thing is sad. Are people accepting living in democracies they experience working so poorly that they believe government has its own - or worse someone else’s - best interest in mind.
  - wizeman 4y ago
    > I like my government. I believe it operates with the best interest of the majority in mind. Yeah, I used to believe that too. > Are people accepting living in democracies they experience working so poorly that they believe government has its own - or worse someone else’s - best interest in mind. Yes, unfortunately. And that's something people learn to accept because 1) most people are not aware that governments could work better, and 2) even if they know governments could work better, it's not clear to them how to achieve that, and 3) even when there are governments that already work better, it's not easy to move to another country, be it due to friends, family, lack of jobs in your expertise, language barriers, cultural barriers, different climate, strict immigration policies, etc. And even when you can move to another country, many countries still have most of the same underlying problems with government, because even when there is genuine interest in solving the problems (which is rare), their root causes are never actually solved (or at least, not effectively).
throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
ah yes, civil asset forfeiture is now a And That's A Good Thing, Here's Why