4 ms·

I don't operate one but back in university did some calculations around these and another factor is that efficiency goes down with rising temperatures. If the p

by vasco 4y ago

I don't operate one but back in university did some calculations around these and another factor is that efficiency goes down with rising temperatures. If the panels are all on the ground, during summer they will heat up and there won't be much air circulation beneath them to help cool them off. So efficiency will go down for sure, and I'm not sure the 20% one time savings will compensate a forever-less-efficient running operation. I guess it depends where in the world you install them, if more towards the north it might be ok.

ush 4y ago
this is a very good point. would be good to see data for a couple of years of production and compare vs. traditional system. it's most of the time better to spend upfront for ongoing production increase. If 5% loss during 25 years, 20% upfront saving might not look that good anymore for a plant that pays back in 7 years or so.
- neltnerb 4y ago
  The response of the company when the issues of heating, vegetation, snow, and rain is... I guess I am not impressed. > The expert added, “I’m also concerned about the lack of airflow around the module in this system design. Glass-glass modules provide a good moisture seal, but I suspect the back of the module will have very high humidity with no airflow. Damp-heat testing will be important. Not sure what other organic stuff could grow back there, like fungus or mold or things that get in the J-box,” referring to the junction box that houses the equipment that carries electricity from each panel. > Daniel Flanigan, chief marketing and product officer at Erthos, offered this response: “No developer is going to install an Erthos system without proper diligence and all of these issues…being resolved. Yet we are engaged in over a gigawatt of pipeline.” Okay, got it. So because people are paying for it people should pay for it. Everyone knows something no one knows. https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/solar/utility-scale-solar-has-stagnated-so-erthos-mounts-pv-panels-right-on-the-ground https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/solar/utility-scale-sol...
  - moron4hire 4y ago
    That's what they said about Theranos, too.
  - ush 4y ago
    I agree. sounds like a red flag when they reply with "yeah everyone is buying it so your question is irrelevant" instead of providing a technical explanation/response. I am also skeptical on companies that raise too much funding (I can not imagine why they need $18million)
- Temporary_31337 4y ago
  Consider the difference in borrowing costs now too. A 20% higher upfront cost means a 30% higher cost if you include financing over several years. So it will be good to see how the alternatives work out
- twobitshifter 4y ago
  They’ve studied the heat dissipation https://www.erthos.com/modeling-heat-dissipation-in-earth-mount-solar-pv https://www.erthos.com/modeling-heat-dissipation-in-earth-mo...
pifm_guy 4y ago
When experimenting with solar efficiency, I noticed that spraying the panels with water every half hour increases efficiency pretty dramatically. The wet surface seems better at absorbing sunlight than the 'anti reflective' glass surface, and the evaporating water is a great cooler. Since it uses so little water, I don't know why industrial installations don't do it.
- pkphilip 4y ago
  In the Kochi airport in Kerala, India, the water used to wash the solar panels is used to grow fruits and vegetable plants right under the panels and these are harvested and sold. The plants under the panels also reduces the heat under the panels and thus increases the efficiency of power generation. This can be a nice way of getting additional income from the land and also tackles the problem of plants growing under the panels. https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/kerala/2021/dec/13/cochin-airport-scales-up-agri-voltaic-farming-with-joint-production-of-food-and-energy-2395094.html https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/kerala/2021/dec/13/c...
- TaylorAlexander 4y ago
  In some areas, the water use just from cleaning solar panels becomes a serious issue (let alone using more water to cool them). It's not much water to spray on some panels you are experimenting with, but for a large installation it seems like it would be a lot of water.
  - pkphilip 4y ago
    See my comment above. This water is being used to grow agricultural crops under the panels in Kochi airport in India. https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/kerala/2021/dec/13/cochin-airport-scales-up-agri-voltaic-farming-with-joint-production-of-food-and-energy-2395094.html https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/kerala/2021/dec/13/c...
  - gregoriol 4y ago
    The best areas for solar are hot, those are also likely to be the areas where water supply is the most constrained, so this is definitely a no-go solution

by vasco 4y ago

ush 4y ago

this is a very good point. would be good to see data for a couple of years of production and compare vs. traditional system. it's most of the time better to spend upfront for ongoing production increase. If 5% loss during 25 years, 20% upfront saving might not look that good anymore for a plant that pays back in 7 years or so.

neltnerb 4y ago
The response of the company when the issues of heating, vegetation, snow, and rain is... I guess I am not impressed. > The expert added, “I’m also concerned about the lack of airflow around the module in this system design. Glass-glass modules provide a good moisture seal, but I suspect the back of the module will have very high humidity with no airflow. Damp-heat testing will be important. Not sure what other organic stuff could grow back there, like fungus or mold or things that get in the J-box,” referring to the junction box that houses the equipment that carries electricity from each panel. > Daniel Flanigan, chief marketing and product officer at Erthos, offered this response: “No developer is going to install an Erthos system without proper diligence and all of these issues…being resolved. Yet we are engaged in over a gigawatt of pipeline.” Okay, got it. So because people are paying for it people should pay for it. Everyone knows something no one knows. https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/solar/utility-scale-solar-has-stagnated-so-erthos-mounts-pv-panels-right-on-the-ground https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/solar/utility-scale-sol...
- moron4hire 4y ago
  That's what they said about Theranos, too.
- ush 4y ago
  I agree. sounds like a red flag when they reply with "yeah everyone is buying it so your question is irrelevant" instead of providing a technical explanation/response. I am also skeptical on companies that raise too much funding (I can not imagine why they need $18million)
Temporary_31337 4y ago
Consider the difference in borrowing costs now too. A 20% higher upfront cost means a 30% higher cost if you include financing over several years. So it will be good to see how the alternatives work out
twobitshifter 4y ago
They’ve studied the heat dissipation https://www.erthos.com/modeling-heat-dissipation-in-earth-mount-solar-pv https://www.erthos.com/modeling-heat-dissipation-in-earth-mo...

pifm_guy 4y ago

When experimenting with solar efficiency, I noticed that spraying the panels with water every half hour increases efficiency pretty dramatically. The wet surface seems better at absorbing sunlight than the 'anti reflective' glass surface, and the evaporating water is a great cooler. Since it uses so little water, I don't know why industrial installations don't do it.

pkphilip 4y ago
In the Kochi airport in Kerala, India, the water used to wash the solar panels is used to grow fruits and vegetable plants right under the panels and these are harvested and sold. The plants under the panels also reduces the heat under the panels and thus increases the efficiency of power generation. This can be a nice way of getting additional income from the land and also tackles the problem of plants growing under the panels. https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/kerala/2021/dec/13/cochin-airport-scales-up-agri-voltaic-farming-with-joint-production-of-food-and-energy-2395094.html https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/kerala/2021/dec/13/c...
TaylorAlexander 4y ago
In some areas, the water use just from cleaning solar panels becomes a serious issue (let alone using more water to cool them). It's not much water to spray on some panels you are experimenting with, but for a large installation it seems like it would be a lot of water.
- pkphilip 4y ago
  See my comment above. This water is being used to grow agricultural crops under the panels in Kochi airport in India. https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/kerala/2021/dec/13/cochin-airport-scales-up-agri-voltaic-farming-with-joint-production-of-food-and-energy-2395094.html https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/kerala/2021/dec/13/c...
- gregoriol 4y ago
  The best areas for solar are hot, those are also likely to be the areas where water supply is the most constrained, so this is definitely a no-go solution