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What are you paying for when you buy a domain name? Isn't it essentially just a rental for a year? How is this any different than a landlord increasing rent aft

What are you paying for when you buy a domain name? Isn't it essentially just a rental for a year? How is this any different than a landlord increasing rent after a rental agreement is up? It's a bad thing for Google to do, but let's not act like it's illegal.

indigodaddy 4y ago
There should be regulations around this for single entity/registrar-owned domains. Otherwise it’s exactly the same as a monopoly. I’m sure Google won’t get away with this for long. p.s. and no, I sure wouldn’t like my landlord to 70x my rent. Like from say 1,000/mo to 70,000/mo ? That’s like totally cool then right? How about let’s act like it _should_ be illegal, and then make it so.
- shepherdjerred 4y ago
  > Otherwise it’s exactly the same as a monopoly. Oh come on, let's not kid ourselves here. There are _plenty_ of other TLDs to choose from. Google owns .dev, they can do what they want with it. The debate of whether a company should own a TLD like Google does is another question entirely. > p.s. and no, I sure wouldn’t like my landlord to 70x my rent. Like from say 1,000/mo to 70,000/mo ? That’s like totally cool then right? No it's not cool; that's totally exploitative. But my landlord sure could do that if they wanted to because they own the building. If my landlord thinks someone will pay $70,000/mo for my unit why shouldn't they be allowed to see that profit? Google definitely should not be treating their customers like this, especially considering that they're burning bridges for such little income.
- t-writescode 4y ago
  This is how registries have worked since their inception (afaik). And yes, it's a monopoly. ICANN designates what TLDs are valid Registries own individual TLDs fully Registrars resell domains on those TLDs that registries own.
toast0 4y ago
I would say the expectation is that you're paying for the initial rental and the option to renew at around the same price/year (subject to promotions etc, and reasonable annual increase). Of course, the contract at the time of payment may say otherwise.
- shepherdjerred 4y ago
  > Of course, the contract at the time of payment may say otherwise. Yeah, this is kinda my point. Google (probably; I haven't read the agreement) has no obligation to keep the renewal price the same. I'm not saying they should be doing this (especially considering they're a trillion dollar company), but Google seems well within their right to do it. This is the same with housing where it is not uncommon to have occasional raises in rent that loosely trails inflation.
  - lupire 4y ago
    Tracking inflation is nothing like monopolistic rent-seeking, which is a violation of antitrust law.
    - shepherdjerred 4y ago
      Saying that Google has a monopoly on domains is strange. Does Disney have a monopoly on superheroes because they own Marvel? Google owns .dev. There are plenty of other TLDs to choose from.
  - indigodaddy 4y ago
    You won’t quit with that analogy will you? 70x is loosely trailing inflation?
    - shepherdjerred 4y ago
      Please feel free to replace my example any other recurring cost. Your Netflix subscription, the cost of an IKON pass, your car's yearly registration. The analogy is, of course, not the point here.
RSZC 4y ago
You're working under an inaccurate mental model of the web...or at least how the web used to be. The OG model here is one of decentralization. In this model, the registrar (Google) isn't the owner of the domain. They're just a business that deals with the annoying details around registering a domain on your behalf, and you pay them a small fee to do so. Once again, the registrar can't sell or rent you anything, because they don't own anything to sell you. The registrar only sells the service of acting on your behalf. Premium domains were originally seen as a shitty thing to do, because it put the domain registrars in the business of acting against their customers. Instead of registering a domain on behalf of their customers, they instead would buy the domains for themself, so they could then sell them at huge markup to their customers. Some registrars then took things further and pre-register domains their customers searched for, even if they never had any interest in buying the domain originally. Extra shitty. The current .dev (or similar) situation once again feels really dirty to people thinking of the web under this traditional mental model. Domains aren't supposed to be just GIVEN to a single company to then charge whatever price they want. The web is supposed to be decentralized, and instead...we're here.
- shepherdjerred 4y ago
  > They're just a business that deals with the annoying details around registering a domain on your behalf, and you pay them a small fee to do so. I mean, yes, sure. That's technically how it works, but in practice I'm not sure that really matter. What happens to your domain if your Google account gets banned? Does your domain disappear? Does Google let you transfer it out?
  - lupire 4y ago
    Imagine your whole company losing your domain because one of your employees offended Google ML model at some point and the AI bot declared you guilty by association.
    - shepherdjerred 4y ago
      This exact fear is why I'm planning to move my domains to Cloudflare (unless there's an even better registrar).

indigodaddy 4y ago

There should be regulations around this for single entity/registrar-owned domains. Otherwise it’s exactly the same as a monopoly. I’m sure Google won’t get away with this for long. p.s. and no, I sure wouldn’t like my landlord to 70x my rent. Like from say 1,000/mo to 70,000/mo ? That’s like totally cool then right? How about let’s act like it _should_ be illegal, and then make it so.

shepherdjerred 4y ago
> Otherwise it’s exactly the same as a monopoly. Oh come on, let's not kid ourselves here. There are _plenty_ of other TLDs to choose from. Google owns .dev, they can do what they want with it. The debate of whether a company should own a TLD like Google does is another question entirely. > p.s. and no, I sure wouldn’t like my landlord to 70x my rent. Like from say 1,000/mo to 70,000/mo ? That’s like totally cool then right? No it's not cool; that's totally exploitative. But my landlord sure could do that if they wanted to because they own the building. If my landlord thinks someone will pay $70,000/mo for my unit why shouldn't they be allowed to see that profit? Google definitely should not be treating their customers like this, especially considering that they're burning bridges for such little income.
t-writescode 4y ago
This is how registries have worked since their inception (afaik). And yes, it's a monopoly. ICANN designates what TLDs are valid Registries own individual TLDs fully Registrars resell domains on those TLDs that registries own.

toast0 4y ago

I would say the expectation is that you're paying for the initial rental and the option to renew at around the same price/year (subject to promotions etc, and reasonable annual increase). Of course, the contract at the time of payment may say otherwise.

shepherdjerred 4y ago
> Of course, the contract at the time of payment may say otherwise. Yeah, this is kinda my point. Google (probably; I haven't read the agreement) has no obligation to keep the renewal price the same. I'm not saying they should be doing this (especially considering they're a trillion dollar company), but Google seems well within their right to do it. This is the same with housing where it is not uncommon to have occasional raises in rent that loosely trails inflation.
- lupire 4y ago
  Tracking inflation is nothing like monopolistic rent-seeking, which is a violation of antitrust law.
  - shepherdjerred 4y ago
    Saying that Google has a monopoly on domains is strange. Does Disney have a monopoly on superheroes because they own Marvel? Google owns .dev. There are plenty of other TLDs to choose from.
- indigodaddy 4y ago
  You won’t quit with that analogy will you? 70x is loosely trailing inflation?
  - shepherdjerred 4y ago
    Please feel free to replace my example any other recurring cost. Your Netflix subscription, the cost of an IKON pass, your car's yearly registration. The analogy is, of course, not the point here.

RSZC 4y ago

You're working under an inaccurate mental model of the web...or at least how the web used to be. The OG model here is one of decentralization. In this model, the registrar (Google) isn't the owner of the domain. They're just a business that deals with the annoying details around registering a domain on your behalf, and you pay them a small fee to do so. Once again, the registrar can't sell or rent you anything, because they don't own anything to sell you. The registrar only sells the service of acting on your behalf. Premium domains were originally seen as a shitty thing to do, because it put the domain registrars in the business of acting against their customers. Instead of registering a domain on behalf of their customers, they instead would buy the domains for themself, so they could then sell them at huge markup to their customers. Some registrars then took things further and pre-register domains their customers searched for, even if they never had any interest in buying the domain originally. Extra shitty. The current .dev (or similar) situation once again feels really dirty to people thinking of the web under this traditional mental model. Domains aren't supposed to be just GIVEN to a single company to then charge whatever price they want. The web is supposed to be decentralized, and instead...we're here.

shepherdjerred 4y ago
> They're just a business that deals with the annoying details around registering a domain on your behalf, and you pay them a small fee to do so. I mean, yes, sure. That's technically how it works, but in practice I'm not sure that really matter. What happens to your domain if your Google account gets banned? Does your domain disappear? Does Google let you transfer it out?
- lupire 4y ago
  Imagine your whole company losing your domain because one of your employees offended Google ML model at some point and the AI bot declared you guilty by association.
  - shepherdjerred 4y ago
    This exact fear is why I'm planning to move my domains to Cloudflare (unless there's an even better registrar).