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I don't know if this is related to your experience, but one thing I have noticed a lot is that new Rust programmers experience some friction point with the lang

I don't know if this is related to your experience, but one thing I have noticed a lot is that new Rust programmers experience some friction point with the language and suggest some sort of change to address it. This sort of feedback almost always seems to be rejected by other Rust users. I don't believe it's out of a sense that Rust is perfect as it is. There are loads of discussions about where it does a poor job and how it can be improved. The problem is that the feedback from these new users is usually poorly received because the person has an incomplete understanding of the language. They may not understand that there is another, easier and more idiomatic approach to whatever problem they experienced, or they might not understand the values that underpin the language (Bryan Cantrill has a fantastic talk on this [1]). Others being uncompromising in these respects might come across as elitist or condescending. [1]: https://corecursive.com/024-software-as-a-reflection-of-values-with-bryan-cantrill/ https://corecursive.com/024-software-as-a-reflection-of-valu...

aussiesnack 4y ago
I have seen a bit of that, but no more than in other language 'communities' (I mention Elixir and Clojure a few times here, because these are the most recent languages I've been a beginner in). But that's not what I mean. I'm referring to the denial in the Rust community that it is difficult, when people are expressing the difficulties they are actually experiencing. The default position amongst Rust enthusiasts is simply to deny that the difficult thing is actually difficult. I have not experienced this anywhere else. You can even see it to some extent in the official tag line "A language empowering everyone to build reliable and efficient software". As this axiomatically applies to 'everyone', it logically follows that if you can't use Rust to build something or you're having difficulties doing so, you are either a bit dumb or lazy. Now of course, if I really drew this inference merely from a marketing slogan, it would be a cheap shot. But I find it pointedly representative of the Rust culture at large. It is polite, and often fairly helpful, but there is a sort of glassy indifference towards struggle or friction. Asking questions online about Rust often feels to me like talking to a corporate rep. [PS - thanks for the podcast pointer. Corecursive is in my subs but I haven't listened that far back. I shall]

aussiesnack 4y ago

I have seen a bit of that, but no more than in other language 'communities' (I mention Elixir and Clojure a few times here, because these are the most recent languages I've been a beginner in). But that's not what I mean. I'm referring to the denial in the Rust community that it is difficult, when people are expressing the difficulties they are actually experiencing. The default position amongst Rust enthusiasts is simply to deny that the difficult thing is actually difficult. I have not experienced this anywhere else. You can even see it to some extent in the official tag line "A language empowering everyone to build reliable and efficient software". As this axiomatically applies to 'everyone', it logically follows that if you can't use Rust to build something or you're having difficulties doing so, you are either a bit dumb or lazy. Now of course, if I really drew this inference merely from a marketing slogan, it would be a cheap shot. But I find it pointedly representative of the Rust culture at large. It is polite, and often fairly helpful, but there is a sort of glassy indifference towards struggle or friction. Asking questions online about Rust often feels to me like talking to a corporate rep. [PS - thanks for the podcast pointer. Corecursive is in my subs but I haven't listened that far back. I shall]