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Tesla knows all this. This truck is for a very specific niche: owned fleets near two warehouses or within a 500 mile round trip from a major port. Basically: a

Tesla knows all this. This truck is for a very specific niche: owned fleets near two warehouses or within a 500 mile round trip from a major port. Basically: all the warehouses in the Inland Empire near LAX and Long Beach and the warehouses in the Newark area that service the NYC metro area. It has the potential to dramatically reduce costs for some routes/corridors. It will be a big hit in these areas. It will have a large impact on a very specific niche. There's nothing wrong with that. These aren't going to be used by independent truckers. It's not for them. It's for drivers making the same 80-100 mile or so trip from port to warehouse every day.

kelnos 4y ago
It snows in the NYC metro area, so all the complaints about how the truck is unsuitable for snow are still applicable.
spoils19 4y ago
- TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
  Thread is written by trucker who is making correct points to a design made in an office, but never consulted with an end user.
- andrepd 4y ago
  Jesus Christ
elijaht 4y ago
I don't see how that is relevant. Nearly all of the criticisms posed (maybe not the snow one?) would still be relevant to a driver in the situation you describe. This has nothing to do with range or even the fact that it's electric
- hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
  While I largely agree with you, there are at least a subset of the complaints in the Twitter thread that are pretty inconsequential if the truck is only intended for < 500 mile routes (for example, the "no space for a bed" complaint).
  - anigbrowl 4y ago
    You think that drivers won't be asked to do 3 trips a day, or that the truck will never break down miles from anywhere?
    - hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
      Who cares if they do 3 trips a day, it's not like they won't need to stop and unload on each trip. Beds-in-cabs is really only a thing for long haul truckers. There are tons of vehicles used for trips of the length that the Tesla Semi is for that don't have beds, and nobody would expect they would.
      - deely3 4y ago
        > There are tons of vehicles used for trips of the length that the Tesla Semi is for that don't have beds, and nobody would expect they would. Citation needed.
    - kristjansson 4y ago
      The driver sleeps in the truck in neither of those scenarios. The driver drives back and forth from the port until his shift is over, then another driver takes over. If the truck breaks down ... you're in the middle of Los Angeles. Someone from the company picks you up, and you drive another truck, or go home. GP's (very reasonable) thesis is that these are for truck driving as a day-job, in fair-weather locales, which obviates most of the complaints.
      - kelnos 4y ago
epolanski 4y ago
I'm not following, how would it reduce costs over different trucks?
- feifan 4y ago
  Cost-per-mile is cheaper from electricity than from diesel, and it's expected to have lower maintenance costs too (fewer moving parts, no oil changes, etc)
  - epolanski 4y ago
    > Cost-per-mile is cheaper from electricity than from diesel Depends where. > and it's expected to have lower maintenance costs too That's theory. Compare maintenance costs of a Tesla and any hybrid Toyota.
    - foobazgt 4y ago
      It's been almost four years for me, and I've had to spend exactly $0 in maintenance on my Model 3. We'll see what the future holds, but not bad so far.
      - Dah00n 4y ago
        It has been 3 years with my Toyota and all I have paid for is new windscreen-wipers (winter ruins them). I don't see how that matters though. What matters are actual numbers from a trusted source: ADAC (German motor organization) says it costs $0,51 per kilometer to drive a Tesla Model 3. My Toyota costs $0,31. Nothing exceptional about the price on Tesla maintenance.
        fumar 4y ago
        How did you skip oil changes?
        toast0 4y ago
anigbrowl 4y ago
Besides the fact that other electric trucks already exist, I question the roadworthiness of a design that doesn't have any instrumentation directly in front of the driver (like a speedometer...) and that puts the driver several paces and a corner away from a door, which seems like a distinct disadvantage in the event of a crash or a fire.
- quonn 4y ago
  There is really no difference if the speedometer is in front (actually below) or to the right. In both cases your eyes have to refocus. I tried both. It‘s a non-issue in the Model 3/Y.
alistairSH 4y ago
Still can’t hand papers out the window, which happens to all trucks (weigh stations aren’t optional, etc). Still getting mud all over the inside with the door behind the seat. Even if you aren’t sleeping in it, you’re spending time there.
- themagician 4y ago
  Minor inconvenience. Pepsi doesn't care how you hand papers to someone. FedEx doesn't care if you get mud in the cab, you'll just have to clean it after your shift. This is the kind of efficiency tool that will be bought by large corporations and forced on drivers.
  - nyrikki 4y ago
    You still have to look over you shoulder when merging and need the ability to shift your body to see in the mirror or to check where your tire is when backing up. I get that lots of car drivers merge by faith, but you kill people and potentially spend time in jail in a CMV. Local deliveries are far more dependant on this than OTR, and even the drivers of front discharge cement trucks with narrow cabs complain about this.
    - themagician 4y ago
      Sucks to have to drive this then. If Pepsi believes it can cut its transport costs for certain routes by 20% it doesn't care how inconvenienced or annoyed you are.
      - sianemo 4y ago
        It doesn't until there are negative externalities, you know, like labor retention rates, that cause those transport costs to go back up. Tesla might be able to sell some of these to some companies for a while, because brand recognition and Elon stans in purchasing positions. That's not really a good strategy for long term growth, and Tesla can't just will an automotive niche into existence.
_ea1k 4y ago
TBH, I really wonder if fuel delivery would be a big market eventually. There seems to be a lot of traffic between near-urban terminals and urban gas stations that is very inefficient with diesel semis.
rsynnott 4y ago
> It's for drivers making the same 80-100 mile or so trip from port to warehouse every day. Why the range, then? Surely something lower-range (and thus cheaper) would be preferable there.
- TylerE 4y ago
  Trucks tend to have lots of idle time - truckers like their comms and climate control to work while they’re waiting to get loaded, for one. Also, you might have a local truck used in more than one back to back shift.
- TaylorAlexander 4y ago
  It sounds like Tesla has a lot to prove to skeptical truckers, so a big number on range can head off some criticism. I think what people are saying is that there are a lot of 80-100 mile trips that this can serve, where the criticisms aren’t really a big issue. But more range still means expanded use cases.
  - themagician 4y ago
    It doesn’t have to prove anything to truckers. It’s not for truckers. It’s for large companies that want to reduce their transportation costs. They don’t care about you, the driving experience, how inconvenienced you might be, etc.
    - rsynnott 4y ago
      In general, companies _do_ care somewhat about worker convenience; poorly designed inconvenient things slow everything down. Particularly with trucking, actually, I'd have thought; I'm not sure how it is in the US, but there's an acute shortage of truckers in much of Europe (particularly post-Brexit), so employers won't necessarily want to annoy them for no good reason.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
aidenn0 4y ago
Also note that (nearly?) all EU trucks are cab-over-engine because laws in Europe on the overall length of the truck are more strict, so you get more cargo for the same LOA vs a conventional cab. Author of TFA certainly appears to be in Europe.
jeffbee 4y ago
If that's the use case then Tesla has entered the market late and with an inappropriate solution. You can already buy that local route electric truck from 4 different legit truck companies.
jahewson 4y ago
Wait so Tesla knows that it's not possible for the driver to reach out the window to hand over the paperwork necessary to get into and out of a port, or through scales, because... the truck is designed for ports. Ok then.
ThePadawan 4y ago
> It's for drivers making the same 80-100 mile or so trip from port to warehouse every day. So this truck is bad as a truck...except for the use case where it should have been a train in the first place?

kelnos 4y ago

It snows in the NYC metro area, so all the complaints about how the truck is unsuitable for snow are still applicable.

spoils19 4y ago

TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
Thread is written by trucker who is making correct points to a design made in an office, but never consulted with an end user.
andrepd 4y ago
Jesus Christ

elijaht 4y ago

I don't see how that is relevant. Nearly all of the criticisms posed (maybe not the snow one?) would still be relevant to a driver in the situation you describe. This has nothing to do with range or even the fact that it's electric

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
While I largely agree with you, there are at least a subset of the complaints in the Twitter thread that are pretty inconsequential if the truck is only intended for < 500 mile routes (for example, the "no space for a bed" complaint).
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  You think that drivers won't be asked to do 3 trips a day, or that the truck will never break down miles from anywhere?
  - hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
    Who cares if they do 3 trips a day, it's not like they won't need to stop and unload on each trip. Beds-in-cabs is really only a thing for long haul truckers. There are tons of vehicles used for trips of the length that the Tesla Semi is for that don't have beds, and nobody would expect they would.
    - deely3 4y ago
      > There are tons of vehicles used for trips of the length that the Tesla Semi is for that don't have beds, and nobody would expect they would. Citation needed.
  - kristjansson 4y ago
    The driver sleeps in the truck in neither of those scenarios. The driver drives back and forth from the port until his shift is over, then another driver takes over. If the truck breaks down ... you're in the middle of Los Angeles. Someone from the company picks you up, and you drive another truck, or go home. GP's (very reasonable) thesis is that these are for truck driving as a day-job, in fair-weather locales, which obviates most of the complaints.
    - kelnos 4y ago

epolanski 4y ago

I'm not following, how would it reduce costs over different trucks?

feifan 4y ago
Cost-per-mile is cheaper from electricity than from diesel, and it's expected to have lower maintenance costs too (fewer moving parts, no oil changes, etc)
- epolanski 4y ago
  > Cost-per-mile is cheaper from electricity than from diesel Depends where. > and it's expected to have lower maintenance costs too That's theory. Compare maintenance costs of a Tesla and any hybrid Toyota.
  - foobazgt 4y ago
    It's been almost four years for me, and I've had to spend exactly $0 in maintenance on my Model 3. We'll see what the future holds, but not bad so far.
    - Dah00n 4y ago
      It has been 3 years with my Toyota and all I have paid for is new windscreen-wipers (winter ruins them). I don't see how that matters though. What matters are actual numbers from a trusted source: ADAC (German motor organization) says it costs $0,51 per kilometer to drive a Tesla Model 3. My Toyota costs $0,31. Nothing exceptional about the price on Tesla maintenance.
      - fumar 4y ago
        How did you skip oil changes?
        toast0 4y ago

anigbrowl 4y ago

Besides the fact that other electric trucks already exist, I question the roadworthiness of a design that doesn't have any instrumentation directly in front of the driver (like a speedometer...) and that puts the driver several paces and a corner away from a door, which seems like a distinct disadvantage in the event of a crash or a fire.

quonn 4y ago
There is really no difference if the speedometer is in front (actually below) or to the right. In both cases your eyes have to refocus. I tried both. It‘s a non-issue in the Model 3/Y.

alistairSH 4y ago

Still can’t hand papers out the window, which happens to all trucks (weigh stations aren’t optional, etc). Still getting mud all over the inside with the door behind the seat. Even if you aren’t sleeping in it, you’re spending time there.

themagician 4y ago
Minor inconvenience. Pepsi doesn't care how you hand papers to someone. FedEx doesn't care if you get mud in the cab, you'll just have to clean it after your shift. This is the kind of efficiency tool that will be bought by large corporations and forced on drivers.
- nyrikki 4y ago
  You still have to look over you shoulder when merging and need the ability to shift your body to see in the mirror or to check where your tire is when backing up. I get that lots of car drivers merge by faith, but you kill people and potentially spend time in jail in a CMV. Local deliveries are far more dependant on this than OTR, and even the drivers of front discharge cement trucks with narrow cabs complain about this.
  - themagician 4y ago
    Sucks to have to drive this then. If Pepsi believes it can cut its transport costs for certain routes by 20% it doesn't care how inconvenienced or annoyed you are.
    - sianemo 4y ago
      It doesn't until there are negative externalities, you know, like labor retention rates, that cause those transport costs to go back up. Tesla might be able to sell some of these to some companies for a while, because brand recognition and Elon stans in purchasing positions. That's not really a good strategy for long term growth, and Tesla can't just will an automotive niche into existence.

_ea1k 4y ago

TBH, I really wonder if fuel delivery would be a big market eventually. There seems to be a lot of traffic between near-urban terminals and urban gas stations that is very inefficient with diesel semis.

rsynnott 4y ago

> It's for drivers making the same 80-100 mile or so trip from port to warehouse every day. Why the range, then? Surely something lower-range (and thus cheaper) would be preferable there.

TylerE 4y ago
Trucks tend to have lots of idle time - truckers like their comms and climate control to work while they’re waiting to get loaded, for one. Also, you might have a local truck used in more than one back to back shift.
TaylorAlexander 4y ago
It sounds like Tesla has a lot to prove to skeptical truckers, so a big number on range can head off some criticism. I think what people are saying is that there are a lot of 80-100 mile trips that this can serve, where the criticisms aren’t really a big issue. But more range still means expanded use cases.
- themagician 4y ago
  It doesn’t have to prove anything to truckers. It’s not for truckers. It’s for large companies that want to reduce their transportation costs. They don’t care about you, the driving experience, how inconvenienced you might be, etc.
  - rsynnott 4y ago
    In general, companies _do_ care somewhat about worker convenience; poorly designed inconvenient things slow everything down. Particularly with trucking, actually, I'd have thought; I'm not sure how it is in the US, but there's an acute shortage of truckers in much of Europe (particularly post-Brexit), so employers won't necessarily want to annoy them for no good reason.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]

aidenn0 4y ago

Also note that (nearly?) all EU trucks are cab-over-engine because laws in Europe on the overall length of the truck are more strict, so you get more cargo for the same LOA vs a conventional cab. Author of TFA certainly appears to be in Europe.

jeffbee 4y ago

If that's the use case then Tesla has entered the market late and with an inappropriate solution. You can already buy that local route electric truck from 4 different legit truck companies.

jahewson 4y ago

Wait so Tesla knows that it's not possible for the driver to reach out the window to hand over the paperwork necessary to get into and out of a port, or through scales, because... the truck is designed for ports. Ok then.

ThePadawan 4y ago

> It's for drivers making the same 80-100 mile or so trip from port to warehouse every day. So this truck is bad as a truck...except for the use case where it should have been a train in the first place?