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Same for the Go, Python, JS, Java communities. People will always try to “defend” what they like one way or another. Also, what can you criticise about Rust? /

Same for the Go, Python, JS, Java communities. People will always try to “defend” what they like one way or another. Also, what can you criticise about Rust? /s

jstx1 4y ago
I don't think it's the same for the languages that you listed, they seem much more pragmatic and willing to acknowledge flaws and tradeoffs. Maybe the Julia community comes close to Rust in the degree of cultiness.
- mattrighetti 4y ago
  I feel like the Rust community right now is being flooded by “fanboys” that have heard that the language is great for x and y (and x, y really are great probably), therefore they continue to push only those cool parts of the language but they didn’t even write a single line on code in production with it. That’s why I’m saying that you find those people in most communities. Rust is just the trendy one right now so you just notice it more.
aussiesnack 4y ago
That's true in the limit - if you go in guns blazing then any community is going to get defensive. But I have found the Rust community to be uniquely thin-skinned. This is only one person's experience, I can't provide any real evidence beyond my own memory of interactions. Crude sketches of my experience presenting beginner difficulties to a few communities: Clojure: "yes, clojure does tend to be used largely by experts, which can present some difficulties", followed by many friendly suggestions about how to get there Elixir: "you're having trouble? Hmm that's not good. Try this for now, and let's see what we can do to improve matters" Rust: "no, you're mistaken, nothing in Rust is difficult if you're smart or hard-working enough"
- worik 4y ago
  > uniquely thin-skinned I have not found that. Occasionally, but rudeness, bullying, and intolerance is not tolerated. Compared to the GNU world. Try reporting a bug in Emacs. "You complete idiot". Or Dog help us: OpenBSD.
  - aussiesnack 4y ago
    Politeness and receptiveness are entirely orthogonal qualities. The Rust community is indeed mostly polite. That's a good thing I think, but it can paper over a good deal of dismissiveness (expressed as politely as a Victorian men's club sneer).
- estebank 4y ago
  > Rust: "no, you're mistaken, nothing in Rust is difficult if you're smart or hard-working enough" I feel the need to mention that that attitude isn't welcome in any of the communities I participate in and I make sure to call it out when it does rear its ugly head. Personally I bend myself backwards to try and meet newcomer developers where they are when it comes to the way the compiler uses diagnostics. The closest I can think of to this attitude being prevalent is "what are you trying to accomplish (because the way you're trying to do it is going to be harder than you're ready for yet)?", which doesn't mean "you're stupid/not hardworking" but rather "there's collective wisdom about how to work in the confines of the borrow checker, and going against the grain while also learning the language will put you off the language".
  - aussiesnack 4y ago
    Well it's common on the Rust user forums in my experience. I had intended to have a good stab at Rust in 2022 as I typically learn a new language per year (to varying degrees). Having failed to really get on very well with it I'm going (for the first time) to continue for a 2nd year and try Rust once more in 2023. But I don't plan to engage with the Rust community again - there are lots of great learning materials around and I'd rather go it alone than run the smug superiority gauntlet.
- nabakin 4y ago
  Strange, I haven't seen that on r/Rust or the various Discord servers. Honestly, I've seen more of that kind of attitude in C/C++ circles

Same for the Go, Python, JS, Java communities. People will always try to “defend” what they like one way or another. Also, what can you criticise about Rust? /s

jstx1 4y ago

I don't think it's the same for the languages that you listed, they seem much more pragmatic and willing to acknowledge flaws and tradeoffs. Maybe the Julia community comes close to Rust in the degree of cultiness.

mattrighetti 4y ago
I feel like the Rust community right now is being flooded by “fanboys” that have heard that the language is great for x and y (and x, y really are great probably), therefore they continue to push only those cool parts of the language but they didn’t even write a single line on code in production with it. That’s why I’m saying that you find those people in most communities. Rust is just the trendy one right now so you just notice it more.

aussiesnack 4y ago

That's true in the limit - if you go in guns blazing then any community is going to get defensive. But I have found the Rust community to be uniquely thin-skinned. This is only one person's experience, I can't provide any real evidence beyond my own memory of interactions. Crude sketches of my experience presenting beginner difficulties to a few communities: Clojure: "yes, clojure does tend to be used largely by experts, which can present some difficulties", followed by many friendly suggestions about how to get there Elixir: "you're having trouble? Hmm that's not good. Try this for now, and let's see what we can do to improve matters" Rust: "no, you're mistaken, nothing in Rust is difficult if you're smart or hard-working enough"

worik 4y ago
> uniquely thin-skinned I have not found that. Occasionally, but rudeness, bullying, and intolerance is not tolerated. Compared to the GNU world. Try reporting a bug in Emacs. "You complete idiot". Or Dog help us: OpenBSD.
- aussiesnack 4y ago
  Politeness and receptiveness are entirely orthogonal qualities. The Rust community is indeed mostly polite. That's a good thing I think, but it can paper over a good deal of dismissiveness (expressed as politely as a Victorian men's club sneer).
estebank 4y ago
> Rust: "no, you're mistaken, nothing in Rust is difficult if you're smart or hard-working enough" I feel the need to mention that that attitude isn't welcome in any of the communities I participate in and I make sure to call it out when it does rear its ugly head. Personally I bend myself backwards to try and meet newcomer developers where they are when it comes to the way the compiler uses diagnostics. The closest I can think of to this attitude being prevalent is "what are you trying to accomplish (because the way you're trying to do it is going to be harder than you're ready for yet)?", which doesn't mean "you're stupid/not hardworking" but rather "there's collective wisdom about how to work in the confines of the borrow checker, and going against the grain while also learning the language will put you off the language".
- aussiesnack 4y ago
  Well it's common on the Rust user forums in my experience. I had intended to have a good stab at Rust in 2022 as I typically learn a new language per year (to varying degrees). Having failed to really get on very well with it I'm going (for the first time) to continue for a 2nd year and try Rust once more in 2023. But I don't plan to engage with the Rust community again - there are lots of great learning materials around and I'd rather go it alone than run the smug superiority gauntlet.
nabakin 4y ago
Strange, I haven't seen that on r/Rust or the various Discord servers. Honestly, I've seen more of that kind of attitude in C/C++ circles