4 ms·

Sure there is, not like there isn't misconduct and thus negative associations with the latter too though. But regardless if you label the group that thinks so "

by detaro 4y ago

Sure there is, not like there isn't misconduct and thus negative associations with the latter too though. But regardless if you label the group that thinks so "a chunk of people" or "some noisy idiots", them turning up is still different from them conspiring to dog-pile you, which RPi are now claiming. And belittling them instead of ignoring them breaks your "we're a nice and open community brand" image you've been trying to sell even for many of those that are not in the group, and as I said I think it's primarily the consequence of that what they are seeing now. One would think that's Social Media management 101 by now... (So if you blew that up over just a "some noisy idiots" you've mishandled it even worse?)

mytailorisrich 4y ago
Being nice and open does not imply having to take abuse with a smile, does it? And I am calling a cat a cat with my previous choice of words. Again, there is nothing wrong with their new hire or the way he was introduced. As I already wrote, there is nothing wrong or underhand about surveillance in organised crime investigations. So from there it was abuse by a noisy minority. 'Abuse' is the appropriate word because it's effectively accusing that person and asking for his sacking. Have a nice evening! Edit: And yes, without those idiots (they are the problem) we would not be having this conversation, which would have been so much better but I think it's important to speak up in support of Raspberry Pi and their team.
- detaro 4y ago
  From what I've seen, this was the "abuse" that really kicked it off (as in, their response to it was what was spread widely as "lol wtf are they doing"): "Folks I'm not exactly a police supporter but this is a terrible way to intro Tony. You've basically written this guy specialises in surveillance and now he works with our computers, yay!" Sorry, that's not abuse. If they'd not responded negatively and with blocks to stuff that milquetoast we'd probably not be having this conversation now.
- yellowapple 4y ago
  > Being nice and open does not imply having to take abuse with a smile, does it? That cuts both ways: the various members of the community who are victims of police surveillance (let alone other abuses) are under no obligation to take with a smile an overt manifestation of that abuse. > As I already wrote, there is nothing wrong or underhand about surveillance in organised crime investigations. What makes you so confident that the entirety of the new hire's surveillance work was against organized criminals?
  - mytailorisrich 4y ago
    I didn't know that Raspberry Pi was popular among organised crime... because that's the 'police surveillance' we're talking about. I am very disappointed by HN members on this one... really unsavoury.
    - yellowapple 4y ago
      > I didn't know that Raspberry Pi was popular among organised crime You didn't answer my question: why are you so confident that such surveillance was/is strictly confined to organized criminals? > I am very disappointed by HN members on this one... really unsavoury. The feeling is mutual. People playing defense for literal government surveillance and the officers perpetrating it does the name "Hacker News" a rather tragic disservice.
- rolenthedeep 4y ago
  > Being nice and open does not imply having to take abuse with a smile, does it? You've found and then blasted right past the point. The controversy is largely coming from customers receiving abuse from the company. Because a few people got angry, does that mean the entire customer base now has to endure abuse from the company and be happy about it? In general, in today's society, it is considered wholly unacceptable for a company to dish abuse onto customers. And yes, companies are expected to take abuse with a smile. Whether that's good or bad is a different discussion, but the expectation is that the company handle abuse gracefully. Ignoring it and not engaging at all is typically the safest way. How would you react if one of Microsoft or Apple's pr drones came around to insult you personally? These companies receive orders of magnitude more abuse in a day than rpi would in a year, but their pr people don't act like this. The Rpi team did something bad. They mistreated customers, then doubled down instead of acknowledging or apologizing. They're trying to spin it as some wild conspiracy instead of accepting that one pr person made a shitty call in handling angry customers.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - humanactu 4y ago
    > Because a few people got angry, does that mean the entire customer base now has to endure abuse from the company and be happy about it? A few angry neurodivergent-poly-queer types on Mastodon throwing ACAB tantrums does not constitute their entire customer base, or even a barely significant fraction of it. The Raspberry Pi folks made the right call here. There's no point engaging seriously with these people, they'll just drain your energy with even more of their bullshit.

by detaro 4y ago

mytailorisrich 4y ago

Being nice and open does not imply having to take abuse with a smile, does it? And I am calling a cat a cat with my previous choice of words. Again, there is nothing wrong with their new hire or the way he was introduced. As I already wrote, there is nothing wrong or underhand about surveillance in organised crime investigations. So from there it was abuse by a noisy minority. 'Abuse' is the appropriate word because it's effectively accusing that person and asking for his sacking. Have a nice evening! Edit: And yes, without those idiots (they are the problem) we would not be having this conversation, which would have been so much better but I think it's important to speak up in support of Raspberry Pi and their team.

detaro 4y ago
From what I've seen, this was the "abuse" that really kicked it off (as in, their response to it was what was spread widely as "lol wtf are they doing"): "Folks I'm not exactly a police supporter but this is a terrible way to intro Tony. You've basically written this guy specialises in surveillance and now he works with our computers, yay!" Sorry, that's not abuse. If they'd not responded negatively and with blocks to stuff that milquetoast we'd probably not be having this conversation now.
yellowapple 4y ago
> Being nice and open does not imply having to take abuse with a smile, does it? That cuts both ways: the various members of the community who are victims of police surveillance (let alone other abuses) are under no obligation to take with a smile an overt manifestation of that abuse. > As I already wrote, there is nothing wrong or underhand about surveillance in organised crime investigations. What makes you so confident that the entirety of the new hire's surveillance work was against organized criminals?
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  I didn't know that Raspberry Pi was popular among organised crime... because that's the 'police surveillance' we're talking about. I am very disappointed by HN members on this one... really unsavoury.
  - yellowapple 4y ago
    > I didn't know that Raspberry Pi was popular among organised crime You didn't answer my question: why are you so confident that such surveillance was/is strictly confined to organized criminals? > I am very disappointed by HN members on this one... really unsavoury. The feeling is mutual. People playing defense for literal government surveillance and the officers perpetrating it does the name "Hacker News" a rather tragic disservice.
rolenthedeep 4y ago
> Being nice and open does not imply having to take abuse with a smile, does it? You've found and then blasted right past the point. The controversy is largely coming from customers receiving abuse from the company. Because a few people got angry, does that mean the entire customer base now has to endure abuse from the company and be happy about it? In general, in today's society, it is considered wholly unacceptable for a company to dish abuse onto customers. And yes, companies are expected to take abuse with a smile. Whether that's good or bad is a different discussion, but the expectation is that the company handle abuse gracefully. Ignoring it and not engaging at all is typically the safest way. How would you react if one of Microsoft or Apple's pr drones came around to insult you personally? These companies receive orders of magnitude more abuse in a day than rpi would in a year, but their pr people don't act like this. The Rpi team did something bad. They mistreated customers, then doubled down instead of acknowledging or apologizing. They're trying to spin it as some wild conspiracy instead of accepting that one pr person made a shitty call in handling angry customers.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- humanactu 4y ago
  > Because a few people got angry, does that mean the entire customer base now has to endure abuse from the company and be happy about it? A few angry neurodivergent-poly-queer types on Mastodon throwing ACAB tantrums does not constitute their entire customer base, or even a barely significant fraction of it. The Raspberry Pi folks made the right call here. There's no point engaging seriously with these people, they'll just drain your energy with even more of their bullshit.