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The owners can do what they want to do without a business. So why create a business? If the owners just want to have a place to park their money, they can have

by blrgeek 15y ago

The owners can do what they want to do without a business. So why create a business? If the owners just want to have a place to park their money, they can have a trust. If they want to do good in the world they can make a non-profit, or an NGO. The only valid definition of a business purpose - creating customers. If they don't want customers (one, few or many), they shouldn't start a business. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/business http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/business

beagle3 15y ago
> If they don't want customers (one, few or many), they shouldn't start a business. Legally, there is no such a thing as a "business". A corporation or LLP exists to limit liability. That's it. "Business" is not well defined in the real world. Is an HFT proprietary trading firm, trading its own money on an anonymous exchange, with no customers or clients, not a business?
- Shorel 15y ago
  So you say that the real world is mostly made from legal definitions? I would wonder what that would mean for string theory.
  - beagle3 15y ago
    > So you say that the real world is mostly made from legal definitions? No. I'm saying that arguing about what a "business" is or isn't is futile, because something which is a business to one is not a business to the other. Had there been a legal definition, there would have been merit to such a discussion. > I would wonder what that would mean for string theory. I wonder too. So far, string theory has not been predictive, and as such is a very interesting intellectual experiment, but not a lot more. When it can actually predict something testable that disagrees with another theory, we'll be able to call it "science".
- nknight 15y ago
  > Legally, there is no such a thing as a "business". The US Internal Revenue Service would probably disagree with you there. If I didn't file Schedule C ("Profit or Loss From Business") every year, I'd be in prison. > Is an HFT proprietary trading firm, trading its own money on an anonymous exchange, with no customers or clients, not a business? An HFT with no "customers" is simply an agent of its owners. The only sense in which you could call it a business is that it happens to have the form of an incorporated entity, which many businesses also happen to have the form of. A is part of B, C is part of B, does that mean all As are Cs? You've latched on to one of the bizarre artifacts of the modern American legal system, not a fundamental principle of business.
  - beagle3 15y ago
    > If I didn't file Schedule C ("Profit or Loss From Business") every year, I'd be in prison. I wasn't aware of that; In that case, there is at least one legal definition of business with a lot of merit behind it (gun wielding people will put you in prison if you fall under it but do not file schedule C). And whatever the IRS regulations for Schedule C define as a business, is a business. > An HFT with no "customers" is simply an agent of its owners. Aren't all businesses? Isn't the defining property of business is doing transactions? (of whatever kind). Can you summarize what the requirement for Schedule C filing is? > You've latched on to one of the bizarre artifacts of the modern American legal system, not a fundamental principle of business. Where are the fundamental principles detailed? I agree the vast majority of businesses have customers, but I don't think it's a defining property -- there are a lot of people with customers who do not consider themselves having a "business" (Although the IRS might think otherwise)

by blrgeek 15y ago

beagle3 15y ago

> If they don't want customers (one, few or many), they shouldn't start a business. Legally, there is no such a thing as a "business". A corporation or LLP exists to limit liability. That's it. "Business" is not well defined in the real world. Is an HFT proprietary trading firm, trading its own money on an anonymous exchange, with no customers or clients, not a business?

Shorel 15y ago
So you say that the real world is mostly made from legal definitions? I would wonder what that would mean for string theory.
- beagle3 15y ago
  > So you say that the real world is mostly made from legal definitions? No. I'm saying that arguing about what a "business" is or isn't is futile, because something which is a business to one is not a business to the other. Had there been a legal definition, there would have been merit to such a discussion. > I would wonder what that would mean for string theory. I wonder too. So far, string theory has not been predictive, and as such is a very interesting intellectual experiment, but not a lot more. When it can actually predict something testable that disagrees with another theory, we'll be able to call it "science".
nknight 15y ago
> Legally, there is no such a thing as a "business". The US Internal Revenue Service would probably disagree with you there. If I didn't file Schedule C ("Profit or Loss From Business") every year, I'd be in prison. > Is an HFT proprietary trading firm, trading its own money on an anonymous exchange, with no customers or clients, not a business? An HFT with no "customers" is simply an agent of its owners. The only sense in which you could call it a business is that it happens to have the form of an incorporated entity, which many businesses also happen to have the form of. A is part of B, C is part of B, does that mean all As are Cs? You've latched on to one of the bizarre artifacts of the modern American legal system, not a fundamental principle of business.
- beagle3 15y ago
  > If I didn't file Schedule C ("Profit or Loss From Business") every year, I'd be in prison. I wasn't aware of that; In that case, there is at least one legal definition of business with a lot of merit behind it (gun wielding people will put you in prison if you fall under it but do not file schedule C). And whatever the IRS regulations for Schedule C define as a business, is a business. > An HFT with no "customers" is simply an agent of its owners. Aren't all businesses? Isn't the defining property of business is doing transactions? (of whatever kind). Can you summarize what the requirement for Schedule C filing is? > You've latched on to one of the bizarre artifacts of the modern American legal system, not a fundamental principle of business. Where are the fundamental principles detailed? I agree the vast majority of businesses have customers, but I don't think it's a defining property -- there are a lot of people with customers who do not consider themselves having a "business" (Although the IRS might think otherwise)