4 ms·

It seems like the article is mostly talking about micronutrients like iron and zinc absorption rather than the protein. While important to keep in mind it does

by likpok 4y ago

It seems like the article is mostly talking about micronutrients like iron and zinc absorption rather than the protein. While important to keep in mind it doesn't seems like a big indictment of meat substitutes. Take a supplement and move on with your life! Vegans (less so vegetarians) need to supplement anyway, things like creatine or B12 have few natural plant sources. My personal beef with meat substitutes is that they aren't particularly good substitutes so I'd rather eat the real thing. But if you're eating a burger you're not really thinking about your health anyway.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
OJFord 4y ago
Those are the harder ones to hit than protein anyway, makes sense it's looking at those. In a way it would make a lot of sense for these kinds of products to intentionally add them - just like your 'take a supplement', why not have it added to the food? Can't really do that with raw vegetables, but processed vegetarian (especially 'meat substitute') stuff...
- jcampbell1 4y ago
  According to the article the problem is anti-nutrients. I’m not sure how powerful the effect is, but it could mean phytates in beans disable added supplements. Maybe the advice is don’t take supplements when eating high phytate foods.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
floor2 4y ago
Fun fact, animals don't produce B12. Historically meat contained B12 because animals got it from drinking water and eating food that had the microorganisms which do produce it, but in contemporary industrial scale agriculture, where animals are drinking chlorinated water piped into their pen, eating grains from a trough and being given antibiotics, they no longer get it from microorganisms which would have been in their natural environment. The people running hog confinement operations, cattle feedlots or chicken warehouses give the animals B-vitamin fortified food to make up for the deficiency. So vegans should take a B vitamin directly, but it's the same B vitamin being given to the animals for it to end up in meat.
- wehtuer 4y ago
  It's depressing to read that animals are treated somewhere like that. Meanwhile I can see funny looking highland cattle grazing in the pasture from my window. It's so delicious and comes with zero ethical issues (for me, I'm a proud carnivore but I despise mistreating animals) when contrasted with the horror stories of cattle spending all their lives indoors and such. Heck, I am grateful that the locally produced quality meat is basically prized the same here as the stuff you know nothing of when bought directly from the farmer.
  - mikestew 4y ago
    Meanwhile I can see funny looking highland cattle grazing in the pasture from my window. "Oh, I eat only pasture-raised beef" is all well and good, and I can commend doing so if one is going to eat meat anyway. But AFAICT, it unfortunately doesn't scale well enough to supply a burger-hungry world, and certainly is not an affordable option for all.
    - olddustytrail 4y ago
      That's a very extreme form of communism, where you believe that if a good is available to anyone it must be available to everyone. Do you actually believe that or is it limited to burgers?
    - jterrys 4y ago
      A lot of it, imo, is cultural more than mass production. Chickens are kind of a prime example of that. Factory raise them for the breasts and maybe thighs and essentially discard the rest from a consumer standpoint. I'd wager the ratio of chicken raised primarily for chicken breasts far outweigh the added consumption of thighs and wings. Wings in particular are so funny to me... most places sell "boneless wings" alongside actual wings that are just cubed chicken breasts. If culturally, there was more emphasis on using other parts of animals in our (presumably American diet) we'd definitely get more mileage out of every raised cow, chicken, and pig. ...but this actually brings it into a more 'chicken or egg' (pun intended) contradiction. Because farm raised animals typically don't make the base for good stock since they don't consume good food. They don't consume good food because they're mass produced on a budget. They're mass produced on a budget because consumers typically pick only a few cuts of an animal and discard the rest.
anikom15 4y ago
Supplements are expensive, and meat substitutes are expensive, so you are really compounding the cost compared to just eating meat. Supplements may not necessarily be vegan either. If a supplement you’re taking is a byproduct of meat production, what is even the point?
- neuralRiot 4y ago
  >Supplements are expensive I don’t know where people buy theirs but i spend more in Spotify than in supps.
- likpok 4y ago
  Some supplements are expensive, some are not. Creatine, B12, iron and zinc are all cheap. They are also specifically all available in vegan forms. You're better off getting micronutrients from food sure but there are other options if for some reason you can't or won't. > If a supplement you’re taking is a byproduct of meat production, what is even the point Most vegans I know are vegan for ethical reasons which is consistent with minimizing the "animal footprint" even if you can't 100% remove it.

by likpok 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

OJFord 4y ago

Those are the harder ones to hit than protein anyway, makes sense it's looking at those. In a way it would make a lot of sense for these kinds of products to intentionally add them - just like your 'take a supplement', why not have it added to the food? Can't really do that with raw vegetables, but processed vegetarian (especially 'meat substitute') stuff...

jcampbell1 4y ago
According to the article the problem is anti-nutrients. I’m not sure how powerful the effect is, but it could mean phytates in beans disable added supplements. Maybe the advice is don’t take supplements when eating high phytate foods.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

floor2 4y ago

Fun fact, animals don't produce B12. Historically meat contained B12 because animals got it from drinking water and eating food that had the microorganisms which do produce it, but in contemporary industrial scale agriculture, where animals are drinking chlorinated water piped into their pen, eating grains from a trough and being given antibiotics, they no longer get it from microorganisms which would have been in their natural environment. The people running hog confinement operations, cattle feedlots or chicken warehouses give the animals B-vitamin fortified food to make up for the deficiency. So vegans should take a B vitamin directly, but it's the same B vitamin being given to the animals for it to end up in meat.

wehtuer 4y ago
It's depressing to read that animals are treated somewhere like that. Meanwhile I can see funny looking highland cattle grazing in the pasture from my window. It's so delicious and comes with zero ethical issues (for me, I'm a proud carnivore but I despise mistreating animals) when contrasted with the horror stories of cattle spending all their lives indoors and such. Heck, I am grateful that the locally produced quality meat is basically prized the same here as the stuff you know nothing of when bought directly from the farmer.
- mikestew 4y ago
  Meanwhile I can see funny looking highland cattle grazing in the pasture from my window. "Oh, I eat only pasture-raised beef" is all well and good, and I can commend doing so if one is going to eat meat anyway. But AFAICT, it unfortunately doesn't scale well enough to supply a burger-hungry world, and certainly is not an affordable option for all.
  - olddustytrail 4y ago
    That's a very extreme form of communism, where you believe that if a good is available to anyone it must be available to everyone. Do you actually believe that or is it limited to burgers?
  - jterrys 4y ago
    A lot of it, imo, is cultural more than mass production. Chickens are kind of a prime example of that. Factory raise them for the breasts and maybe thighs and essentially discard the rest from a consumer standpoint. I'd wager the ratio of chicken raised primarily for chicken breasts far outweigh the added consumption of thighs and wings. Wings in particular are so funny to me... most places sell "boneless wings" alongside actual wings that are just cubed chicken breasts. If culturally, there was more emphasis on using other parts of animals in our (presumably American diet) we'd definitely get more mileage out of every raised cow, chicken, and pig. ...but this actually brings it into a more 'chicken or egg' (pun intended) contradiction. Because farm raised animals typically don't make the base for good stock since they don't consume good food. They don't consume good food because they're mass produced on a budget. They're mass produced on a budget because consumers typically pick only a few cuts of an animal and discard the rest.

anikom15 4y ago

Supplements are expensive, and meat substitutes are expensive, so you are really compounding the cost compared to just eating meat. Supplements may not necessarily be vegan either. If a supplement you’re taking is a byproduct of meat production, what is even the point?

neuralRiot 4y ago
>Supplements are expensive I don’t know where people buy theirs but i spend more in Spotify than in supps.
likpok 4y ago
Some supplements are expensive, some are not. Creatine, B12, iron and zinc are all cheap. They are also specifically all available in vegan forms. You're better off getting micronutrients from food sure but there are other options if for some reason you can't or won't. > If a supplement you’re taking is a byproduct of meat production, what is even the point Most vegans I know are vegan for ethical reasons which is consistent with minimizing the "animal footprint" even if you can't 100% remove it.