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I wouldn't mind owning an EV, but every time I've looked into buying a used one, it's never made more financial sense than keeping my ICV. The same can be said

I wouldn't mind owning an EV, but every time I've looked into buying a used one, it's never made more financial sense than keeping my ICV. The same can be said about buying a used ICV, albeit at to a lesser degree. Millions upon millions of ICVs will remain on the road regardless of any sort of ban on the sale of new ones in the next decade (if that actually comes to fruition). If you can get an EV then more power to you, but a future where enough EVs are on the road that particulate pollution is nearly gone is much further away than people think. This is especially true if existing electrical infrastructure proves to not support millions of electric vehicles charging. I've heard people make up reasons for why the infrastructure isn't a problem, but something about California's handling of the electrical grid doesn't give me confidence. In the meantime, ICVs should be kept on the road as long as they can no longer function without serious repair. If it's both particulate pollution and climate change people are concerned with, then we can make more progress during the gradual shift to EVs by converting existing ICVs to run ethanol-based fuel like E85. Hold on to your butts, because there is a TON of misinformation about ethanol fuel. Here's my case for why we should be converting existing ICVs to support ethanol: - Ethanol is produced from fermenting the starches and sugars from plant material. Those plants pulled carbon out of the atmosphere to make its structure and the carbohydrates. - Ethanol burns far cleaner than gasoline. The carbon returns to the atmosphere where it just came from, whereas burning fossil fuel releases carbon that has spent millions of years underground. There is always some carbon from ethanol production that doesn't return to the atmosphere. In other words, it's far better for the climate than gasoline. - Leftover grains from fermentation of ethanol make excellent animal feed. Ethanol production doesn't compete with food production. It creates better food. Anything remaining can be either hydrolyzed to make more ethanol or burned to contribute to the distillation process. - The vast majority of vehicles manufactured after 2000 can handle a substantial ratio of ethanol with no other changes to the vehicle. Most can run E30 (30% ethanol) without any problems at all, and some even go up to E50. - Most gas cars are capable of running on E85 with either a conversion kit or even a software update to the ECU. - Most gas cars don't require changes to the fuel system to run E85. Outside of high performance applications, the only thing that may need to happen is the fuel injectors need to be on a wider pulse width. - Your vehicle may already be a "Flex Fuel" vehicle and you don't even know it. Many people are unaware of or forgot that they own a Flex Fuel vehicle. - The gas in your car today already contains 10% ethanol. Modern fuel systems are designed to tolerate ethanol extremely well. - Unlike gasoline, ethanol doesn't need to contain added carcinogens like "BTEX", benzene, tuolene, etc. - No, ethanol will not rust your fuel tank or your fuel rail. Ethanol from a gas station is anhydrous. - No, ethanol won't blow up your engine because of water. Ethanol has to sit a long time to absorb enough water to create a bad situation for your engine. In Brazil, they run cars with hydrous ethanol (~95%) just fine. If there's too much water, it has to have been added when it shouldn't have been. - Ethanol is a good cleaner. Your engine may have a longer life on ethanol because you won't get carbon deposits like with gasoline. - Ethanol burns cooler than gasoline. Cooler = better for your engine. - Ethanol resists engine knocking and early ignition better than gasoline. - Ethanol production can be decentralized and done on smaller scales. --- Like I said, I think EVs probably will be the eventual future. I don't see them being the majority of vehicles on the road any time soon. Maybe, idk. Until that happens, we need to rethink ethanol fuel if we want to mitigate climate change and air pollution.

AnthonyMouse 4y ago
Biofuels are basically dead because they cost more to produce than gasoline and people aren't going to accept an increase in energy costs. Electric vehicles are now viable specifically because they have a lower cost per mile than gasoline. The use case for biofuels may be specific applications were electric vehicles haven't been made to work, like aviation. The average car is around 12 years old, implying that if we replaced all new cars with electric, we'd have replaced at least half of them within 12 years. Finding a good deal on a used electric car isn't that easy right now because there aren't that many of them, which changes the more new cars are electric.
- ravenstine 4y ago
  > Biofuels are basically dead because they cost more to produce than gasoline and people aren't going to accept an increase in energy costs. That's simply not factual for ethanol. Also, the blanket term "biofuels" isn't particularly useful here because it can mean many things. I'm talking strictly about ethanol. Not biodiesel, not methanol, not LPNG. > Electric vehicles are now viable specifically because they have a lower cost per mile than gasoline. Even if that were to remain true, sorry, I'm not getting another car loan to replace a car that's already working. That's the reality for the vast majority of people. EVs need to come further down in price by far. > The average car is around 12 years old, implying that if we replaced all new cars with electric, we'd have replaced at least half of them within 12 years. Half of people aren't going to trade in for EVs within 12 years unless the price is right. The prices for even used EVs aren't anywhere near where they need to be for people who live outside the elite bubble. As long as used cars and aftermarket parts can be sold, people will run all the remaining ICVs into the ground, and that can take a very long time with modern vehicles even when treating them like crap. > Finding a good deal on a used electric car isn't that easy right now because there aren't that many of them, which changes the more new cars are electric. Those deals have never been easy to find, but the promise of affordable EVs has always been "just around the corner." I'll wait for EVs to make financial sense in the short term future, but I won't count on it.
  - AnthonyMouse 4y ago

AnthonyMouse 4y ago

Biofuels are basically dead because they cost more to produce than gasoline and people aren't going to accept an increase in energy costs. Electric vehicles are now viable specifically because they have a lower cost per mile than gasoline. The use case for biofuels may be specific applications were electric vehicles haven't been made to work, like aviation. The average car is around 12 years old, implying that if we replaced all new cars with electric, we'd have replaced at least half of them within 12 years. Finding a good deal on a used electric car isn't that easy right now because there aren't that many of them, which changes the more new cars are electric.

ravenstine 4y ago
> Biofuels are basically dead because they cost more to produce than gasoline and people aren't going to accept an increase in energy costs. That's simply not factual for ethanol. Also, the blanket term "biofuels" isn't particularly useful here because it can mean many things. I'm talking strictly about ethanol. Not biodiesel, not methanol, not LPNG. > Electric vehicles are now viable specifically because they have a lower cost per mile than gasoline. Even if that were to remain true, sorry, I'm not getting another car loan to replace a car that's already working. That's the reality for the vast majority of people. EVs need to come further down in price by far. > The average car is around 12 years old, implying that if we replaced all new cars with electric, we'd have replaced at least half of them within 12 years. Half of people aren't going to trade in for EVs within 12 years unless the price is right. The prices for even used EVs aren't anywhere near where they need to be for people who live outside the elite bubble. As long as used cars and aftermarket parts can be sold, people will run all the remaining ICVs into the ground, and that can take a very long time with modern vehicles even when treating them like crap. > Finding a good deal on a used electric car isn't that easy right now because there aren't that many of them, which changes the more new cars are electric. Those deals have never been easy to find, but the promise of affordable EVs has always been "just around the corner." I'll wait for EVs to make financial sense in the short term future, but I won't count on it.
- AnthonyMouse 4y ago